Class Mechanics: Which Race is best?

(Psi)SeveredHead said:
Concealment may still apply, hence no sneak attack.

Only in corner cases. If low-light vision will help here, (giving some opportunities to sneak attack when human vision will not) darkvision will help way more in other situations. The latter, unlike the former, allows one to sneak up upon opponents without needing any light source at all, giving one effective invisibility in some cases. Plus, if one is far enough from the light source, even the low light vision guy will have to deal with shadowy illumination. The darkvision guy has no problem at all. Advantage, dwarf. Remember, we are talking meelee combat when we are talking about flanking.
 
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Thanee said:
PHB classes/races only, I'd probably put them as follows:

Barbarian: Human or Dwarf
Bard: Human or Half-Elf
Cleric: Dwarf
Druid: Human
Fighter: Dwarf
Monk: Dwarf
Paladin: Human
Ranger: Human
Rogue: Halfling or Dwarf
Sorcerer: Human
Wizard: Elf or Gnome

Bye
Thanee

Half Elf as a Bard? This seems useful only in the strange case where you are maxing diplomacy at the cost of everythign else. Otherwise wouldn't the skill points of the human and the feat make a far more effective character?

And this ignores the Gnome who seems to be even mroe highly advantged, albeit with slower move which some players find problematic.
 

Particle_Man said:
Only in corner cases. If low-light vision will help here, (giving some opportunities to sneak attack when human vision will not) darkvision will help way more in other situations. The latter, unlike the former, allows one to sneak up upon opponents without needing any light source at all, giving one effective invisibility in some cases. Plus, if one is far enough from the light source, even the low light vision guy will have to deal with shadowy illumination. The darkvision guy has no problem at all. Advantage, dwarf. Remember, we are talking meelee combat when we are talking about flanking.

You can use low light vision with starlight. It's only on moonless nights when the low light vision user gets totally hosed.

And I don't know about you, but I don't like sneaking around being able to see things only 60 feet away while moving at a slower speed. In the event you are seen, you take longer to run towards your buddies.
 

If sneaking for the sneak attack is that important, then the stat bonus of the elf in Dex gives bonuses to hide and move silently. I'd say that makes up for the hit to con, especially since with a point buy system you can get a 12 con (after adjustment) pretty cheaply, which is enough for a sneak build (majority of points would go in dex and int, natch).

Note that if one is useing lowlight vision to flank in that area of light that is shadowy to the victim but not to the half-elf, wouldn't the victim move, either fully into the light or fully away from the light? Or do we require stationary victims too for the half-elf to shine?

If you are thinking of sticking around in meelee more, then you should be thinking of a fighter type anyhow. And now dwarf and half-orc start crowding the scene.

Also, this lowlight vision is less useful in dungeons, temples, other indoors stuff than darkvision (where 60' is plenty, except for corner cases of freaking huge rooms). So the half-elf is the outdoors kid or the townee kid. Again, the elf does better at the spot/listen side AND the hide/move silently side.

Heck, if darkvison and movement are that important, now the goblin looks great, but of the core seven, you might even take the int hit and look at the half-orc.

The half-elf has nothing to *be* and nothing to *do* that other races can't do better. While no single race is better than the half-elf at each particular thing, there is nothing that the half-elf is better at (except such a small amount of corner cases that you pretty much have to hope that your DM tailors his campaign to favour half-elves - (lots of low-light chances (lots of starry lit cloudless nights, no underground activity, little daylight activity), high diplomacy (night time interactions), high gather information, perhaps odd prestige class (where prerequisites require elf blood and strange mixes of non-wizard classes - fighter/sorceror/arcane archers and the like?), AND as high a con as possible (so frequent combats on these starlit cloudless nights above ground, relatively few combats elsewhere or when)). I have never been in the latter campaign, and from the looks of the posters on this thread and the half-elf thread, it looks like few of the posters have been in such a campaign.
 

(Psi)SeveredHead said:
You can use low light vision with starlight. It's only on moonless nights when the low light vision user gets totally hosed.

And I don't know about you, but I don't like sneaking around being able to see things only 60 feet away while moving at a slower speed. In the event you are seen, you take longer to run towards your buddies.

Why? You can see 60 feet each time you move one 5 foot square. Occasionally a detail will be revealed as you move that changes your move. But you cna change your mind as you move and see new details. This makes running perfectly viable.

Low light vision requires a nearly perfect set-up to work. It only gives double range of vision which can be very short after all is said and done anyway . . .
 

Particle_Man said:
perhaps odd prestige class (where prerequisites require elf blood and strange mixes of non-wizard classes - fighter/sorceror/arcane archers and the like?)

Also note, in support of this argument, that a human does much better than a hlaf elf at meeting the requirements for prestige classes with the sole exception being the requirement to have elf blood. The extra feat and skill point make a huge difference in picking up the requirements as does the favored class ability. Also note, if we leave core behind, that Able Learner conclusively makes the Human is best race to multi-class . . .
 

Votan said:
Half Elf as a Bard? This seems useful only in the strange case where you are maxing diplomacy at the cost of everythign else. Otherwise wouldn't the skill points of the human and the feat make a far more effective character?

In a 3-5 PC party, I would agree that the Feat and skill points are usually more valuable for a jack of all trades style class. In a larger party maxing out a schtick tends to work out pretty well.
 

For the monks I'm going to go with the Half Orc. Anything that helps them hit harder and more often is appreciated, if you have a 12 lying around stick that in intelligence, who cares about the Charisma bonus unless the DM throws Ego Whippers and charisma drainers at you, and the extra movement on the dwarf is nice. But the dwarf is a really strong and close second. I'd say for an Improved Natural Attacking, potion of Enlarge chugging flurrying monk Hlaf orc is the way. A skirmishing High dexterity, high stunning fist DC "nanner nanner boo boo you can't kill me" monk should take dwarf.
Goblins blow halfings out of the water for rogues. Its -2 charisma for Darkvision 60 feet and they get a move silently boost.
 

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