Classes/Feats to allow in AU?

[SSquirrel]

Classes/Feats to allow in AU? Here's the ones I picked from the 5 original 3E splatbooks (Sword & Fist, Tome & Blood, Song & Silence,
Defenders of the Faith, Masters of the Wild) that I thought fit well with the feel fo the game. Changes needed to fit AU in parentheses

Prestige Classes:Sword & Fist:

Cavalier
Drunken Master (Combat Reflexes instead of Evasion)
Duelist
Gladiator
Halfling Outrider (Rename Faen Batrider, Faen not Halfling)
Lasher
Order of the Bow Initiate
Weapon Master (ignore all references to ki as no Asian style areas in game, WM is just someone very focused on their chosen weapon)

DMG: (Alterations as stated in The Diamond Throne)

Assassin
Loremaster
Shadowdancer

Masters of the Wild:

Geomancer (Knowledge Arcana and Nature 8, 3rd level simple spells)
Tempest (Defensive Move instead of Dodge, 2 Wpn Defense instead of Spring Attack)

Song & Silence:

Dread Pirate (Knowledge Sailing instead of Profession Sailor)
Dungeon Delver (Sneak/Tumble instead of Hide/Move Silently, Intuitive Sense not Blind Fight)
Thief-Acrobat (Combat Reflexes not Evasion) *alternately make Evasion a feat requiring Dex 15+*

Tome & Blood:

Acolyte of the Skin (No alignment needed, Knowledge Cosmology not Planes:Outer Planes)
*this feels right as there seem to be several concepts of trading power for responsibility or giving up bits of yourself.*
Pale Master (No alignment needed, Knowledge (Ceremony) not Religion)

Feats:Sword & Fist:

Circle Kick
Close Quarter Fighting
Death Blow
Dirty Fighting
Dual Strike
Eagle Claw Attack
Extra Stunning Attacks
Eyes in the Back of Your Head
Feign Weakness
Fists of Iron
Hold the Line
Improved Overrun
Improved Sunder
Knockdown
Monkey Grip
Off Hand Parry
Pain Touch
Pin Shield
Power Lunge
Prone Attack
Rapid Reload
Remain Conscious
Sharp Shooting
Shield Expert
Snatch Arrows
Throw Anything
Zen Archery

Masters of the Wild:

Brachiation (seems best for southern jungles)
Clever Wrestling
X Toughness
Greater 2 Wpn Fighting
Improved Swimming
Off Hand Parry
Wingover

Tome & Blood:

Arcane Defense
Augment Summoning
Extra Slot
Extra Spell
Greater Spell Penetration

Defenders of the Faith:

Improved Shield Bash
Shield Charge

Song & Silence:

Arterial Strike
Chink in the Armor
Expert tactician
Flick of the Wrist
Hamstring
Multicultural
Pyro
Quicker Than the Eye
Shadow
Snatch Weapon


Any opinions on these choices? Yes I know it all comes down to what I want in my game, but I'm just trying to look at it as what will give my players a good bit of diversity when they are ready to start picking up prestige classes. This won't take long as I'm in full agreement with Monte about starting games at level 5 instead of lower.

I also pointed avoided the normal descriptive (+2 to X and Y skill) feats as we already have a ceremonial feat that handles this wonderfully.

Hagen

 

[Liminal Syzygy]

This won't take long as I'm in full agreement with Monte about starting games at level 5 instead of lower.

There was some quote from Monte saying games should start at level 5? Where?

 

[SSquirrel]

There was some quote from Monte saying games should start at level 5? Where?

Not should just a preference really. If you look in his archives and find the 2 free adventures, he mentions on one of them (Depths of Hunger maybe) that it is set for 5th level as he knows many people aren't fans of 1st level and he isn't really either. Something along those lines.

Hagen

 

[Varianor Abroad]

Not should just a preference really. If you look in his archives and find the 2 free adventures, he mentions on one of them (Depths of Hunger maybe) that it is set for 5th level as he knows many people aren't fans of 1st level and he isn't really either. Something along those lines.

Hagen

FYI - Depths of Hunger was written by Tom Lommel, who posts under Thrommel.

Your PrC list looks reasonable. I'm not personally a fan of the Dread Pirate class. I think that the AU unfettered with a few feat choices works just as well as that. Cavalier is duplicative of the warmain. I wouldn't use that. Love the Faen Batrider rework. I personally wouldn't stick Order of the Bow Initiate in a game, but I haven't looked over the 3.5 revision. I never liked the way that class made archers (already powerful in the game) even better than they were. AU has hawk totem warrior or unfettered to cover the archery niche.

For feats, I'd leave out Monkey Grip. That just allows too many dual-wielding combinations of Large weapon, smaller opponent. Rapid Reload is already in AU as a ceremonial feat. Don't pull in the S&F version. Ditto the Toughness feats. Sturdy is in the game as written and does a fine job. Extra Spell won't really get you anything unless you're also allowing 3.5 sorcs. A feat that allows an extra spell readied would be fine. (I have one of those in my games.) If you're going to pull in Greater Spell Penetration, I'd make that a +1 to spell DCs, not a +2.

There may be more, but I don't have those books in front of me.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about having too many PrCs available. The AU classes are so fun that all my players want to just experience them all the way to 20th level, or in combo with other classes. But that's me.

Hope your game is fun!

 

[GPEKO]

It seems like a fine choice of PrC but I would remove the duelist. I think it's too similar to the unfettered class. Both provide bonus to AC for high intelligence, for example.

 

[SSquirrel]

Your PrC list looks reasonable. I'm not personally a fan of the Dread Pirate class. I think that the AU unfettered with a few feat choices works just as well as that. Cavalier is duplicative of the warmain. I wouldn't use that. Love the Faen Batrider rework. I personally wouldn't stick Order of the Bow Initiate in a game, but I haven't looked over the 3.5 revision. I never liked the way that class made archers (already powerful in the game) even better than they were. AU has hawk totem warrior or unfettered to cover the archery niche.

I'll go ahead and hit these first:I see Cavalier as a branch of Warmain. Warmains themselves are all about big armor and big weapons, but not neccessarily about being mounted combatants. For someone who wants to be the BEST mounted combatant they can, they want to be a Cavalier...likely after several levels of Warmain. Naturally the Lawful tag would get removed as well.

Dread Pirate is all flavor. I mean they talk so much about giants being sailors and there are pirates out there and such, well they need a PrC right? *grin* Plus I dearly love The Princes Bride and it seemed to fit well. I stole the Faen Batrider from someone on Monte's boards who answered my post about this same stuff minus the batrider (I post there as hagenkirk).

I will admit to be unsure about the Bow Initiate, but there really doesn't seem to be a decent way to make a dedicated archer in this setting as the Warmain gets fewer feats than a Fighter and I just don't see someone in heavy armor using a bow as their weapon of choice. Again it's all about options and I would see it fitting more with someone who was an Unfettered really. I really don't think someone should have to be a Hawk totem warrior to be a decent archer. Unfetered it's possible as they will have a good AC from their light armor and such, but I see it as merely an enhancement. Maybe the 3.5 version is less twinked. I'll debate on the Initiate some more.

After some more browsing of the Duelist I concur with the other poster who said it overlapped the Unfettered too much. Altho, they wouldn't gain the bonus from Int twice as same bonus doesn't stack multiple times.

For feats, I'd leave out Monkey Grip. That just allows too many dual-wielding combinations of Large weapon, smaller opponent. Rapid Reload is already in AU as a ceremonial feat. Don't pull in the S&F version. Ditto the Toughness feats. Sturdy is in the game as written and does a fine job. Extra Spell won't really get you anything unless you're also allowing 3.5 sorcs. A feat that allows an extra spell readied would be fine. (I have one of those in my games.) If you're going to pull in Greater Spell Penetration, I'd make that a +1 to spell DCs, not a +2.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about having too many PrCs available. The AU classes are so fun that all my players want to just experience them all the way to 20th level, or in combo with other classes. But that's me.

Yeah I don't doubt taht the polayers wil really enjoy all of the other classes and I did debate not using ANY PrCs from non Monte sources, but decided I should, but only the ones I would choose. So no uber l33t ninjas in my game *grin* Actually I was figuring that Extra Spell would allow an extra spell readied just like a sorceror since AU is all spontaneous casting. Extra slot of course is an extra spell/day. Why known Greater Spell Pen down in power?
I'm not utilizing the various metamagic feats from 3E in general, but I thought this could be something helpful. Admitedly, I've been the only person in my playgroup since the weekend after 3E was first released to actually take ANY Spell Penetration heh.

I thought I had all of the duplications removed, I'l knock out those other couple you mentioned. Kinda forgot about Sturdy too.

I'd like to thank people for their good ideas and suggestions. I've played for 16 years but rarely run b/c I have a hard time keeping a coherent storyline over multiple sessions. Run the occasional good one shot and make a great co-DM as I know the rules cold and come up with some neat ideas, but runnning a game by myself is still a new experience.

Hagen

 

[SSquirrel]

Here's the categories. Give me some feedback. posting on enworld as well.

Feats:Sword & Fist:

Circle Kick (General)
Close Quarter Fighting (General)
Death Blow (General)
Dirty Fighting (General)
Dual Strike (General)
Eagle Claw Attack (General)
Extra Stunning Attacks (General)
Eyes in the Back of Your Head (General)
Feign Weakness (General)
Fists of Iron (General)
Hold the Line (General)
Improved Overrun (General)
Improved Sunder (General)
Knockdown (General)
Off Hand Parry (General)
Pain Touch (General)
Pin Shield (General)
Power Lunge (General)
Prone Attack (General)
Remain Conscious (General)
Sharp Shooting (General)
Shield Expert (General)
Snatch Arrows (General)
Throw Anything (General)
Zen Archery (General)

Masters of the Wild:

Brachiation (General) (seems best for southern jungles)
Clever Wrestling (General)
Greater 2 Wpn Fighting (General)
Improved Swimming (General)
Off Hand Parry (General)
Wingover (General)

Tome & Blood:

Arcane Defense (Ceremonial)
Augment Summoning (General)
Extra Slot (Ceremonial)
Extra Spell (Ceremonial)

Defenders of the Faith:

Improved Shield Bash (General)
Shield Charge (General)

Song & Silence:

Arterial Strike (General)
Chink in the Armor (General)
Expert tactician (General)
Flick of the Wrist (General)
Hamstring (General)
Multicultural (General)
Pyro (Talent)
Quicker Than the Eye (General)
Shadow (General)
Snatch Weapon (General)

Hagen