Classes: You're designing the next PHB, and...

[Particle_Man]

I don't think it takes a lot of scratching beneath the surface of these two classes to realize that a warlock isn't even close to being a replacement for a sorcerer. In fact, I'd say that despite all of the fawning over the "coolness" of the class, from a practical standpoint the warlock isn't good at much of anything. Sure, it's simple, but it's not powerful and it's not versatile and it doesn't fill any particular niche.

I have to wonder how many folks have actually seen a high-level warlock in play. Wouldn't the round-by-round repetitiveness start to bug you even a little bit?

Round 1: Fill a 20 foot spread with Chilling Tentacles.
Round 2: Fill another 20 foot spread with Chilling Tentacles.
Round 3: Yep, you guessed...more Chilling Tentacles. Sure, it's tedious, but it's the best power he's got, and he's got unlimited uses of it.

The Warlock changes at 12th level (about when the powers are noticably less, well, powerful than wizards and such) when the Warlock gets the Item-Fu (added to take 10 on UMD to use what you make). Thus they become kinda "artificiery" in nature, and can get the variety that you say they lack through various wondrous items, staffs, wands, scrolls, etc., depending on what feat they go for. And Warlocks can do this for divine and arcane spell-prerequisite items, which is nice.

Personally, I hated playing spellcasters before the Warlock. Now I love my Warlock to death, because it has so little paperwork involved in keeping track of "mana spent".

 

[glass]

I found voting for this poll kinda difficult, because I would want to change more than just which classes went into the PHB (and because I apparently can't count :\ ).

Anyway, I'd keep the basics (Fighter-type, Rogue-type, Cleric-type, Wizard-type).

Although the Cleric would be a spontaneus caster more like the Favoured Soul or Mystic (or even the Warlock, with 'Invocations' as 'Miracles').

I also voted for Bard, Druid and Paladin, because I like them. But, I think the magical, musical aspects of the bard could easily be a prestige class, with the social functions being rolled into Rogue. I think druids as nature priests would just be clerics with the right domains/spheres/whatever, but I'd like to see a shapeshifting focused class. Paladins could be a prestige class, but I'd like to keep them as base, because I like the 'called almost from birth' aspect.

I like the scout (from what I have heard, although I don't have CAdv yet), but I think Rogue should be flexible enough to cover his role (as well as part of the bard's). Maybe the combined class could be called Wanderer.

I also voted for Warlock rather than Sorcerer because I would like the two types of primary arcane caster to be more distinct, although not necesarily exactly like the current Warlock.


glass.

 

[beaver1024]

You only need 2 classes. Clerics and druids. Since WoTC loves them so much, the next PHB will just be dedicating to making different variants of them to fulfill different roles. Wait we have that already.

 

[MavrickWeirdo]

As of this moment (in the poll) the "origional 11" are unchallenged.

Bard, Monk, Paladin & Sorcerer are the only ones under 200.

Of the "New Classes" only Warlock, Scout & Psion are over 100.

Swashbuckler & Artificer are in the 90's.

Psychic Warrior is in the 80's.

Everyone else is under 50.

342 have voted

 

[Brennin Magalus]

Gee, Monte Cook's sorcerer but not his vastly-superior-to-the-core-version bard?

Monte's bard is inventive but it is too divergent for my taste.

 

[palleomortis]

What we have now is just about right, everything else is just the same thing mixed, mispelled, or fancyed up.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

I'm not surprised that the monk is the least popular of the core classes.

I actually think they should have had more Eastern fantasy influence in the core rules, so as not to make the monk such an odd woman out.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Monte's Bard would break the "only one magic system in the PHB" rule that seems to be pretty common (that's why I dumped Sorcerer for Warmage instead of Warlock or Psion).

If I were designing the Player's Handbook with the benefit of hindsight now, I'd either be firm about this rule - i.e., adopt a magic system without the traditional arcane/divine split (Arcana Unearthed) or give each kind of class its own kind of magic:

• Bards could have Complete Book of Eldritch Might-style spellnote casting.
• Wizards would operate as they do now.
• Clerics would have something more like the sorcerer's casting, by which I mean "limited list with spontaneous casting" whether or not the limited list was permanent or an Arcana Unearthed-style "set a list each day" format.
• Sorcerers would have warlock-style unlimited casting from a severely limited list, with a less restrictive flavour - maybe a package of abilities reflecting various sources of magical ability - celestial, fiendish, fey, Far Realms, natural, et cetera.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Eleven just isn't enough. I'm running at 23 base classes, Gestalt-- though certain class combinations are barred. I want to have a 24th class, mainly because I have the allowed base classes listed in a 6-by-4 table and I'd prefer an even number with a lot of factors. (Don't mock my need for numerical symmetry.)

If only I could figure out a way to replace Fighter for half of Hobgoblins' Favored Gestalt-- then the four main martial humanoids wouldn't have a single class in common.

Artificer (from Eberron)
Fighter
Psion
Sorceror
Barbarian
Hexblade
Psychic Warrior
Soulknife
Bard
Monk
Ranger
Warlock
Cleric
Ninja (from Complete Adventurer)
Rogue
Warmage
Druid
Noble (from Dragonlance)
Scout
Wilder
Favored Soul
Shugenja
Wizard

 

[woodelf]

Okay, WotC comes to you (for whatever reason) and says, "We're doing a new version of the PHB. We can still have only 11 classes, and we'd still like to cover a wide range of bases and classical fantasy archetypes. But we're not set on necessarily keeping the 11 we have now. You get to decide which 11 classes we keep, choosing from this list of 30."

Of course, i'm not entirely certain what i just voted for--i have no idea what the healer or scout classes' abilities actually are, frex.

Also, i'm assuming you mean the classes should be roughly like they are currently. If i'm allowed to re-write the classes, there might be a place for ranger or rogue, frex (i think the current versions are all wrong). And, really, druid and cleric just barely make the cut as is, so i was already presuming i got to tweak them a bit.

edit: And if, as others have done, i can actually postulate radically redesigned classes, the list would be more like:

• fighter: a class that equally-well supports the heavy tank fighter and the agile swashbuckler, and can make a weaponsmaster, pugilist, or anything in between
• rogue: class based around a core of deceptive abilities. it would support not only the thug and streetfighter, but also non-violent archetypes like the cat burglar, con artist, and beggar/pickpocket.
• wizard: pretty much the AU magister. Or, go the opposite route and make it entirely about spellcasting, and save other things (like item creation and familiars) for other classes or feats
• cleric/priest: no spellcasting. if you want a spellcasting priest, multiclass with wizard. moderate or poor fighting abilities--that's what multiclassing with fighter is for. The core of the class would be calling on divine grace, or something to that effect. It could power a whole bunch of different cool 'miracles', using a model somewhat like current divine feats or warlock abilities, but with more on-the-fly flexibility. The idea is to give greater flexibility than a spellcaster, but within a more-focused scope (so no more priests of a god of peace casting attack spells).
• bard: a la Monte Cook, more or less.
• psion: while i'd prefer something closer to Complete Psionics Handbook in mechanism, i'll concede the point and look to XPH for the underlying system. But ditch most of metacreativity, increase the level on remaining metacrative and psychokinetic powers by several, reduce the level on most telepathic and clairsentient powers by a couple, and go through the powers list to make the feel very different from the sorts of things wizards can do, and a good match for classic psychic powers.
• ranger: wilderness guy. That is, someone with exceptional wilderness skills--not necessarily someone who is a furry friend.
• shaman: speaker with the spirits, who works magic by calling on spirits to do it for her
• artificer: enchanter. doesn't cast spells, just creates items.
• psychic warrior: needs a new name. Not a mixed fighter/psion--that's what multiclassing is for--but someone who's psychic powers are manifested internally. depending on the powers you picked, something like the current monk could come out of this class. With a different name for the class, it might also fulfill the totem warrior archetype--maybe by m ulticlassing with shaman.
• expert: skill monkey, because rogue is about deceit, not necessarily expertise. and make it general enough in the skill department that one of expert or rogue would cover the bases for those who want to play a 'noble' or other non-magical social-focused character.

And even with that list, i think the bard is maybe redundant, and could be handled by an expert/psion or expert/wizard and a couple feats that make their spellcasting music-based. But a music-based bard has always been one of my favorite characters, so...