Classic dungeons: What makes them great?

[Jack Morgan]

1. this is a great thread.

2. Rules issues aside, humans/demihumans have two legs, most creatures have four. There are very few animals in the real world that can't out run/ run down even the fastest humans- this includes large heavy animals, like hippos and bulls. Furthermore, while it is true that a carnivore is likely to take an easy meal (bag of pork chops) over a difficult meal (person running away) given the choice; it is also true that predators are largely attracted by movement- running people do considerably more of this than bags of pork chops. Not to mention the fact that if you are being chased by a predator, said predator has already made a choice about its next meal, and is unlikely to change its mind without a really strong incentive.
3. running away is probably a great tactic when dealing with orcs and other bipeds, or if'n you have a horse.

 

[Dr. NRG]

Fact: Coke tastes better than Pepsi, and most people know this. Coke, like D&D, is far and away the market leader in its industry.

This is also a fine explanation for why McDonald's food, with however many billion sold, is the finest in the world, right?

NRG

 

[S'mon]

Retreating - I've seen this done successfully by a slow party faced with an overwhelming enemy horde. The trick is to retreat *immediately*, not fight until you're nearly dead before attempting to flee. The party in question retreated down a tunnel, into a chamber, and set up their defense at the tunnel exit. As the enemy horde poured into the chamber the PCs slaughtered them in droves, so it was clearly certain death to enter the chamber. Even though the enemy still had overwhelming numbers, their front ranks soon failed morale check and refused to enter the chamber. Once they fell back the PCs could continue their retreat, barricading the exit from the dungeon, and eventually escaped. This did not require GM fiat, just intelligent play of the monsters + smart play by the players.

 

[Tarek]

I think we can all agree that McDonald's food isn't the best in the world... but it is very good given price, availability, speed of delivery, and, yes, overall healthiness, RELATIVE to other fast food places.

Wendy's and Roy Rogers tend to be greasier, for instance...

 

[haakon1]

1e has a plethora of rules. I've never understood the idea that 1e is somehow more rules lite than 3e. Good grief, there were rules for catching random diseases of the month! Rules for how much space your character took up depending on which weapon he used. Basic/Expert D&D I freely agree is rules light. 1e? Not so much.

And, I would point out, Rule 0 exists in every edition.

Many, many rules were ignored in most games of 1e, and those that existed seemed "intuitive" since we'd never played another RPG at the time. For example, everyone I've ever played 1e with didn't use the Disease rules or the Weapon v. Armor Type or Weapon Speed Factor rules, but everyone had a variant on "critical hit" rules for natch 20's. 2x damage was perhaps the most popular, but many house rule variants of this never in the rules rule existed.

For later editions, there is more consciousness of the rules, and in the games I've been involved in, more effort to pay attention to what the official rules were.

 

[haakon1]

There are all sorts of resources characters can use to run away 'safely'.

Also, there are often tactical ways to end a pursuit, like slamming a door and spiking it shut.

And there are often role-playing reasons why the "monster" will not follow (ordered to guard the area, afraid of a trick by the PC's, want to warn other allied monsters of the invasion of the lair, etc.).

 

[Melan]

This is also a fine explanation for why McDonald's food, with however many billion sold, is the finest in the world, right?

NRG

It is engineered to be tasty.

 

[Hussar]

Many, many rules were ignored in most games of 1e, and those that existed seemed "intuitive" since we'd never played another RPG at the time. For example, everyone I've ever played 1e with didn't use the Disease rules or the Weapon v. Armor Type or Weapon Speed Factor rules, but everyone had a variant on "critical hit" rules for natch 20's. 2x damage was perhaps the most popular, but many house rule variants of this never in the rules rule existed.

For later editions, there is more consciousness of the rules, and in the games I've been involved in, more effort to pay attention to what the official rules were.

This jives entirely with my own experience too. However, just because we ignored the rules doesn't mean they weren't there. I've been taken to task far too many times on these boards for exactly this sort of thinking.

But, I think you're right about the last bit though. We have become far more rules conscious than we were. I'm thinking it has to do with the internet for one, and age for another. We come to places like EN World and learn a heck of a lot about the rules and, being older, we actually think that reading the instructions is a good idea before play. I find it interesting that in a recent D&D Podcast, David Noonan talks about watching groups of young players get introduced to the game during market research, and have a blast playing the game entirely wrong.

Sounds a heck of a lot like how it was for me a lot of years ago.

 

[anton1066]

Coke vs Pepsi

One interesting fact is that Coke is only slightly more popular then Pepsi. In fact, in the United States, Pepsi out sales coke in every state but Texas. But, the amount that Coke out sales Pepsi in Texas is enough to make Coke more popular then Pepsi in the United States.

Another fact is Texas is the source of all evil, and Pepsi is so much better then Coke, but still not as good as Wild Cherry Pepsi.





Edit: for speling

 

[The Shaman]

By fiat.

"Pursuit and Evasion of Pursuit," 1e AD&D DMG, pp. 67-9.

Not by fiat. By the book.