Claw, Claw, Bite, Karate Chop?

[Crimson_Manticore]

Thanks Patryn,

I am unsure if this was an artifact from 3.0 that was changed, or if I surmised it from the Claws of the Beast psionic power from the 3.0 psionics handbook, or if it came from the Sage. I will try to research this further when I have more time.

Thanks again!

 

[Caeleddin]

Patryn - You take a swipe at me and expect me to give it up? HAH! I fart in your general direction.

You got overruled by the FAQ and still claim otherwise. You actually think you are better than the creators of the game (or as close to it as you can get without the cops being called). I am not buying. The FAQ stands, regardless of your views on it.

You remind me of a spoilt brat. Xxx says "no". You keep jumping up and down screaming "Xxx is wrong! I am right!" ad nauseum. Not gonna work. Try another tactic.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Patryn - You take a swipe at me and expect me to give it up? HAH! I fart in your general direction.

You got overruled by the FAQ and still claim otherwise.

Some people, upon discovering the below, would point at you and laugh and make faces, and accuse others of having "God complexes."

I am not one of those people.

Q: Exactly how often can a monk attack with a single manufactured weapon when using the flurry of blows ability? For example, if I have a +1 alchemical silver dagger, and I’m allowed three attacks in a flurry, how many of those attacks can be dagger attacks? What if I have two daggers? How about with natural weaponry, such as a claw or bite? For example, if I have a vampire monk, can I flurry with a slam attack and drain energy multiple times from one living foe? If natural weaponry doesn’t work with a flurry, why not?

A: You can’t use a dagger with a flurry of blows at all. When you use the flurry ability, you must attack with either unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons. There are only six of the latter included in the Player’s Handbook (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham). A natural weapon (any natural weapon) is neither an unarmed strike nor a special monk weapon, so you can’t use it along with a flurry.

...

It might seem a tad strange that you cannot use a natural weapon, such as a slam or a claw when you can use a monk weapon such as a sai or a kama. However, natural weaponry isn’t as handy as manufactured weaponry. You never get extra attacks from a high base attack bonus with natural weaponry, and the monk’s flurry ability is another way to get extra attacks from your base attack bonus. It’s worth noting here that a vampire monk using its unarmed strike ability is not using its slam attack and cannot drain energy.

Thank you, FAQ. You're still wrong more often than I'd like, but sometimes, you still come through in the clutch.

 

[IcyCool]

I'd just like to point the following out. It being the rules and all:

Errata Rule: Primary Sources

When you find a disagreement between two D&D rules sources, unless an official errata file says otherwise, the primary source is correct. One example of a primary/secondary source is text taking precedence over a table entry. An individual spell description takes precedence
when the short description in the beginning of the spells chapter disagrees.

Another example of primary vs. secondary sources involves book and topic precedence. The Player’s Handbook, for example, gives all the rules for playing the game, for PC races, and the base class descriptions. If you find something on one of those topics from the Dungeon Master’s Guide or the Monster Manual that disagrees with the Player’s Handbook, you should assume the Player’s Handbook is the primary source. The Dungeon Master’s Guide is the primary source for topics such as magic item descriptions, special material construction rules, and so on. The Monster Manual is the primary source for monster descriptions, templates, and supernatural, extraordinary, and spell-like abilities.

The emphasis there is mine. The FAQ is not an official errata file, and so if it contradicts the RAW, it is wrong.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The emphasis there is mine. The FAQ is not an official errata file, and so if it contradicts the RAW, it is wrong.

I've already tried that one.

 

[Caeleddin]

Icy - I had a long convo with HyperSmurf about that. The text in the PHB was unclear as to whether you do NOT use your off-hand in attacking unarmed (which is supported by the fact that you don't even need to use your hands to attack unarmed for a Monk) or if you attack unarmed, you use everything already.

The FAQ used the former interpretation. It did NOT contradict the text. It clarified it.


Patryn - I never said that I was using a natural weapon IN the Flurry. I used the natural weapon AFTER it. Again, you are wrong.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Patryn - I never said that I was using a natural weapon IN the Flurry. I used the natural weapon AFTER it. Again, you are wrong.

Right. Which is why the FAQ mentions that, right? No, wait, it doesn't. It says you can't use them. Sorry.

Note that it specifically says "You can't use it along with Flurry."

Not, "Well, you can't use it while Flurrying, but feel free to do so *afterwards*."

 

[Caeleddin]

Wrong again. It said that you cannot use it as part of the Flurry. Nothing about being able to use it afterwards AS PER NORMAL TWF.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

AS PER NORMAL TWF.

Ah - you mean the TWF rules that natural attacks DON'T FOLLOW?

Seriously. We can scream and yell at each other all day and all night long. You aren't going to budge me, and I'm not going to budge you. Shall we just drop this?

 

[Diirk]

If you flurry, you're considered as flurrying until your next turn. Thats why you keep taking the -2 on all attacks until then, including AoOs. Thus, there is no "after".

Note: you can only TWF and flurry in the same round if you're using monk weapons. As natural weapons aren't monk weapons, not being able to use them and flurry in the same round is perfectly consistant with TWF/flurry.