Cleave and Mirror Image

[Uller]

A DM is "free to rule" a different way, of course, because he's free to rule any way he wants. That's a house rule, though, and it's irrelevant to a discussion of what the book rules are.

Considering I don't bring Dragon Magazine to the table (or the FAQ or pages of Sage Advice or whatever), I'd say what the Sage says is irrelevant "to a discussion of what the book rules are."

It is well known that the Sage doesn't sit there and comb through the books and SRD (and what he said in the past and what other designers said in the past) when he answers questions. He gets and answers tons of questions everyday. He rules on them exactly the way most DMs rule at the table...he thinks about it and says what makes the most sense at the moment....at least that is the way it seems to me.

Calling what the Sage says is "official" and all who disagree as playing by house rules (even when a clear reading of the book shows him to be incorrect) means that almost everyone is playing by house rules...

All I am saying is that it is not unreasonable for a DM to come to a different conclusion than the Sage. Doing so does not make the Sage rigth or the other DM wrong by the letter or the spirit of the rules.

Pulling something out of your arse like saying the caster turns purple is a completely different matter.

As for targetting images with spells...of course you CAN target an image with a spell if you want. The spell just has no affect. But in the case of mirror image, you cannot choose a specific target out of the caster and all his images because they are all weaving in and out of each other constantly. When you chose your target, you make a guess. If it is the wrong one, nothing happens (and according to the FAQ, you "pop" an image).

Seems simple to me...

 

[Hypersmurf]

But in the case of mirror image, you cannot choose a specific target out of the caster and all his images because they are all weaving in and out of each other constantly.

"Constantly" depends on your interpretation of "While moving, the character can merge with and split off from figments so that enemies who have learned which image is real are again confounded".

I read it as requiring a conscious decision (can merge with) on the part of the caster during his action ("while moving").

And given that an image could in theory be up to 40 feet away from the caster, targetting a specific one isn't always the kaleidoscopic impossibility you propose.

-Hyp.

 

[Uller]

"Constantly" depends on your interpretation of "While moving, the character can merge with and split off from figments so that enemies who have learned which image is real are again confounded".

Okay...Okay...I will concede that in some circumstances you can discern individual images. And you can attempt to target individual images with a spell then (it appears the true intention of the spell is that the images reshuffle on the casters turn).

However, this has nothing to do with cleave. Cleave is rather specific about what triggers it. Creatures. Figments are clearly not creatures. You can no more use a figment to trigger a cleave than you could target one with a ghoul touch spell and have it become paralyzed.

 

[AuraSeer]

(I told myself I was gonna stop posting to these threads. Oh well, one more I guess.)

Ghoul Touch is a bad example. If you hit an image with it, that's a successful attack roll, and the image is dispelled.

 

[Uller]

I meant figment in the general sense. Not just from mirror image. But you get my point (not saying you agree with it): Figments can certainly be targetted with attacks and spells...they just don't behave like the real thing.

 

[Mahali]

"Constantly" depends on your interpretation of "While moving, the character can merge with and split off from figments so that enemies who have learned which image is real are again confounded".

I read it as requiring a conscious decision (can merge with) on the part of the caster during his action ("while moving").

And given that an image could in theory be up to 40 feet away from the caster, targetting a specific one isn't always the kaleidoscopic impossibility you propose.

-Hyp.

I interperent "Constantly" as moving around in the 5' hex just like all players due when not stunned or flat footed. Even if they don't take a move action or move 5' you're still dancing around in your square preparing for/avoiding attacks.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Even if they don't take a move action or move 5' you're still dancing around in your square preparing for/avoiding attacks.

"The character can move into and through a mirror image. When the character and the mirror image separate, observers can’t use vision or hearing to tell which one is the character and which the image."

The images remain "each within 5 feet of at least one other figment or the character".

How do you move into-and-through an image that's 5' away from you - while 'dancing around' in your square?

-Hyp.

 

[Uller]

Yeah...it definately seems like once the real caster is known, he is known until his turn when he can reshuffle his images.

 

[Mahali]

"The character can move into and through a mirror image. When the character and the mirror image separate, observers can’t use vision or hearing to tell which one is the character and which the image."

The images remain "each within 5 feet of at least one other figment or the character".

How do you move into-and-through an image that's 5' away from you - while 'dancing around' in your square?

-Hyp.

By overlapping. So in your game if they find out who is real and he doesn't take at least a 5' step the images don't reshuffle?

We just roll randomly each attack.

 

[Hypersmurf]

By overlapping. So in your game if they find out who is real and he doesn't take at least a 5' step the images don't reshuffle?

I have them reshuffle on the caster's action. If the archer at intiative 23 hits the true caster with an arrow, then the fighter and the wizard can target him until the caster's action at initiative 12, but the cleric on initiative 7 has to guess again.

Strictly speaking, I think it should only shuffle if he takes at least a 5' step, but I don't mind relaxing it to on-his-action.

-Hyp.