Cleave Questions

[KeithCrimson]

So I'm playing a Duskblade in my current group and to focus on combat I took Cleave. According to the SRD "The extra attack is with the same weapon and at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous creature. "

If I had cast True Strike and did enough damage to kill someone with that attack would i use the True Strike bonus to attack or would I just use what I rolled on the dice.

If the attack is a critical hit and drops the enemy, is the attack for the cleave considered a critical also?

Are there any prestige classes other than Master Samurai that give a character Supreme Cleave?

I've never had a character take the feat in a game that I have ran so I wanted some feedback. The DM was actually shocked that someone took the feat. Is it a feat that isn't very popular?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Bad Paper]

If I had cast True Strike and did enough damage to kill someone with that attack would i use the True Strike bonus to attack or would I just use what I rolled on the dice.

uhh, no, you are neither using the TS bonus nor your dice roll. You are making a new roll, using the same iterative base attack bonus that you just used. (as in, your first attack in a round is "normal," your second attack in a round is -5, your third attack is -10, usw.) The TS spell served its purpose and is gone.

If the attack is a critical hit and drops the enemy, is the attack for the cleave considered a critical also?

No. See above. You are not using the previous rolls. This is a new attack.

Are there any prestige classes other than Master Samurai that give a character Supreme Cleave?

never heard of this, I'll stay out of this one.

The DM was actually shocked that someone took the feat. Is it a feat that isn't very popular?

Cleave is easily in the top five most popular feats. Your DM is smoking crack.

 

[KeithCrimson]

Then what about the SRD?

CLEAVE [GENERAL]

Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack.

Benefit: If you deal a creature enough damage to make it drop (typically by dropping it to below 0 hit points or killing it), you get an immediate, extra melee attack against another creature within reach. You cannot take a 5-foot step before making this extra attack. The extra attack is with the same weapon and at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous creature. You can use this ability once per round.

 

[wmasters]

The bonus is your attack bonus. So if you attacked with a standard +8 to hit, and kill a creature you can then attack another creature in range, with +8 to hit.

True strike gives you an additional +20 for one attack, so you can consider that one attack becomes as a +8 attack bonus and +20 magic bonus, but after that there is no magic affecting the attack, so the cleave is just at the same +8 attack bonus.

What the part of the text you've highlighted clarifies is that there is no additional penalties for it being a second (or third or whatever) attack, as you would have for having a BAB +6, or natural attacks etc.

So on the same grounds, if your to hit bonus is normally +8/+2 and you drop something with your second attack, your cleave attack is at +2.

Whether the first attack is a critical is irrelevant - you have to roll a new attack dice. The SRD doesn't suggest otherwise.

Similarly, if the second target had a -4 cover penalty you would still incur this, so with the +8 to hit your cleave would be at +8 standard bonus, -4 to cover.

 

[KeithCrimson]

Alright. Thanks for explaining that to me. Like I said I've never had a player once take cleave as they were usually obsessed with two weapon fighting or sundering things. I find it to be very useful when attempting to play the tank of the party, even though I have the third highest hitpoints (behind the Dragon Shaman and the Knight) I end up doing the most damage combat wise with a melee weapon

 

[Legildur]

Check the FAQ. I'm pretty sure it has a reference to Cleave. <found it>

The Cleave feat states that the extra attack is “at the
same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous
creature.” Does this really mean that all bonuses and
penalties on the first attack roll—aid another, smite evil,
flanking, true strike, and so on—apply to the second?
The “bonus” referred to by Cleave means “base attack
bonus,” not “total bonus.” If a 6th-level fighter drops a foe with
his second attack, he makes the extra attack using his base
attack bonus –5 (the same “bonus” as he used for his second
attack).
If you aren’t flanking the new foe, it’s absurd to claim that
you’d get a +2 bonus on the attack roll just because you were
flanking the dropped foe. Any lasting bonuses or penalties—
such as from the bless spell, a high or low Strength score, being
fatigued, or the like—apply to the extra attack just as they
would to any other attack you make.

 

[KeithCrimson]

Thanks for all the feedback. I guess all thats left is Prestige Classes with Supreme Cleave other than the Master Samurai.

 

[Lhorgrim]

Thanks for all the feedback. I guess all thats left is Prestige Classes with Supreme Cleave other than the Master Samurai.

If I remember correctly, the Knight Protector from Complete Warrior gets supreme cleave at around 3rd level.

 

[Legildur]

If I remember correctly, the Knight Protector from Complete Warrior gets supreme cleave at around 3rd level.

Correct. Complete Warrior p56.

 

[KeithCrimson]

Just out of curiousity as I'm not going to be home for a few hours anyone know the preq's?