D&D 5E Cleric Challenged of Helm

[sim-h]

I have the exact same player. Cleric of Helm (and a Dwarf to boot, Life domain). Goes along with the halfling rogue where most plans are concerned.

I just let him get on with it. Although I occasionally make comments to the effect of "that's not really in line with your deity's teachings!" all that does is make him come up with some convoluted RP reason why the character acted in that manner.

I don't see the need to intervene. Helm is LN - do you penalise the player for persistently doing 'Good' deeds?

Just let the player have fun.

 

[jgsugden]

Keep it in game as part of the story.

I'd have his powers wane. DCs on his spells lower. Attack rolls on his spells fade. Some spells just don't work. When he asks why, say he feels his connection to his God has weakened. When he asks what to do, suggest he speak with a more senios cleric of his faith. Then, present options via that cleric. He either needs to find his faith and restore his path under Helm, or find a new path with a new God.

 

[5ekyu]

So theres a Player in my game playing a cleric of Helm. Hes nominally LN on his sheet, but plays CN and has been doing so for several months.

Last session I made him change his alignment to CN.

My question is how should I handle his relationship with Helm? He clearly isnt roleplaying the Tenets of the Helmish religion.

Some thoughts I have-
1)Offer from another (CN) deity - I see you no longer follow Helm - follow me instead
2)Restrained or burdened by an item - he already has an Anti Vampire medallion - maybe it begins to fight him for control
3)Helm removes all abilities except those needed to deal with current plot (plague in Baldurs Gate - Seven days to the grave) and gives him a chance to earn back other abilities and freedom to use them.

The real issue is that hes a bad roleplayer - all his characters are essentially him - Chaotic Selfish, and its been addressed from time to time. The issue at hand is his play of this character - Im not really interested in removing him from the group and I dont believe the rest of the group is either.

Thanks
G

In my gsme, the Hrlm thing would be first not the afterthought.

During play the Hrlm interactions snd church interactions would have been an ongoing source of feedback as his actions and choices violated its tenets and teachings. We would have worked out the basics in chargen, during play there would have been more than a few "your character would know this violates the teachings..." GM to player narratives- no surprises- and if the action were still done with that knowledge then over time more in-game impacts from the church, followers and the divine agents themselves would be seen.

Alignmrnt itself is not actually needed for this. Only the divine's tenets as agreed upon before they took the class and divine.

Describing it as the GM orders alignment change thrn starts looking at consequences paints it into a light of mystery alignment definitions.

 

[Satyrn]

Ive discussed this with the player. He still wants to play this character as a cleric. He admits that he is playing as Chaotic Neutral, but disagrees that he is not following the tenents of Helm.

I have some thinking to do, because like CCS, Im pretty old school; I believe that if you're playing a Cleric, especially at level 10, you need to be clued into the tenets of your God.

I like both the suggestions offered by Shiroiken and BookBarbarian.

Thank You for the Input.
G

If he thinks he's following the tenets and you don't, you may just not be on the same page with each other.

If you don't have anything written down, you might want to write up a brief explanation of the tenets, following the way the paladin oaths are laid out with 3 or 4 key points, and use that as the base for both of you to follow.

 

[smbakeresq]

Well, this old school DM would have an old school response to a cleric who wasn't following their deity.
I don't ascribe to this modern crap of write down whatever you please (often solely for x mech benefit) but then play any wich way you please. If you chose a deity who's requirements are xyz, then to get those benefits you will play xyz. Failure = loss of class abilities.

This response would involve loss of minor powers (stuff gained via subclass), not being allowed to take another lv of cleric, a visit of some sort from an agent of the deity (especially if the player/character questioned why this was happening), and finally the loss of spell casting ability.

These penalties could be lifted by coming back to the requirements/tenants/etc of the original deity or finding a new power.
This stuff would be played through because that's how bad roleplayers get better.

[emoji817]

Today though players think everything is a restriction. For example, I use variant encumbrance because without it powerful build trait, mithral, dwarf armor trait, portable hole, bag of holding, boots of Striding and Springing, etc all lose value or are worthless. The STR dump Hexblade builds all complain it’s taking all their fun away and it’s unfair.

Boo Hoo.

 

[MarkB]

So theres a Player in my game playing a cleric of Helm. Hes nominally LN on his sheet, but plays CN and has been doing so for several months.

Last session I made him change his alignment to CN.

My question is how should I handle his relationship with Helm? He clearly isnt roleplaying the Tenets of the Helmish religion.

Some thoughts I have-
1)Offer from another (CN) deity - I see you no longer follow Helm - follow me instead
2)Restrained or burdened by an item - he already has an Anti Vampire medallion - maybe it begins to fight him for control
3)Helm removes all abilities except those needed to deal with current plot (plague in Baldurs Gate - Seven days to the grave) and gives him a chance to earn back other abilities and freedom to use them.

The real issue is that hes a bad roleplayer - all his characters are essentially him - Chaotic Selfish, and its been addressed from time to time. The issue at hand is his play of this character - Im not really interested in removing him from the group and I dont believe the rest of the group is either.

Thanks
G

There are plenty of good suggestions so far. The real question here is, what's your end goal with this? Get the player to engage more with his character's beliefs? Get him to drop this character in favour of one that's less inconsistent? Let him continue as is, but just punish him for the bad roleplay?

Decide where you want this player and character to be at the end of the process, and choose an option that stands a good chance of moving things in that direction.

 

[Gwaihir]

There are plenty of good suggestions so far. The real question here is, what's your end goal with this? Get the player to engage more with his character's beliefs? Get him to drop this character in favour of one that's less inconsistent? Let him continue as is, but just punish him for the bad roleplay?

Decide where you want this player and character to be at the end of the process, and choose an option that stands a good chance of moving things in that direction.

Great Question - I want him to play the character he told me he wanted to play, a Noble background Cleric of Helm.

This player is always somewhat disruptive in behavior, and his characters are generally chaotic. We've been playing together for 20 years and about once every couple of years, his erratic behavior pisses someone off, but we cool off and start playing again. I don't think this situation is that.

He plays the character without any consideration of what a helmite cleric would act like or believe. I guess that's what I want, I'll happily let him play something else, or a cleric of another deity.

He has told me want to continue this character as a CN cleric of Helm, So I guess Im gonna write up Helm tenets, and if he isnt tending in that direction over several sessions, Im gonna have Helm show up and tell him that its been fun, but he needs to find another date to the prom.

G

 

[aco175]

Sounds like he is bored of the PC or the adventure. I have players who like to play a new campaign every year or so, or if we approach level10.

One thing you can do is to make some adventure around him. Peasants come to the powerful cleric of Helm to ask He aid in the defense of the town in a giant invasion. Next they ask he find the lost sword of X to return to the church. The other paladin orders of Helm hear this and ask him to go on a quest for the Armor of Y and the shield of X. The series culminates with a great defender needing to wear all 3 items to defeat the avatar of Mask the thief god. Unfortunately for him he is unworthy and he needs to fins another knight to give everything to.

Only thing is that you also need to spread spotlight to the other PCs as well, but you can give them cool things along the way. This way you are still playing with the player, but also giving him several opportunities to develop his PC and prove himself.

 

[Eltab]

It is too late for my advice: at chargen, you should have asked "Why Helm? I've never seen you play a protector character before." Then give him the book of deities and let him pick one whose tenets he finds natural to uphold.

For Tales from the Yawning Portal, I created a cleric of an (undefined) Trickery God. I never was more specific than that, but I made sure to try to do things - not just swinging a mace - that messed up the enemies' day, such as burying them under a pile of status conditions.

 

[Plaguescarred]

I'd rule that Helm doesn't have neither the time nor the desire to bother observing a single Cleric's behavior (except High Priest perhaps) and take action against any unlawful acts and would thus do nothing.

At it's roots its a player problem, not a character problem. So you could try address it outside-character. I am a fan of rewarding good behavior rather than penalizing bad ones, so i would look for ways to give him something when he acts according to Helm's alignment and tenents.