Cleric = Druid = Wizard

[AbdulAlhazred]

I think, for me, the idea isn't so much looking for reasons to reject, as looking for reasons to accept.

If this is a "solved problem," what's the problem? How does the design's intent help the game? It's not clear from where I'm standing that it accomplishes something that my D&D would benefit from.

Not that it wouldn't work for some others maybe? Just that I don't see what is gained.

Well, to be clear I'm saying both 1e and 4e approached spellcasters in pretty much the same way, same mechanics and different spells. The OP's suggestion is rather different. I'm only suggesting that it is worthwhile considering the strengths and weaknesses of AEDU separately from the specific spells that are available in 4e, which may be more likely people's issue with it since it isn't actually more 'samey' than Vancian casting was.

 

[Elf Witch]

Anything called "White Mage" would harken calls of videogamey.

Also, if you're going to do that, why even bother with differentiating spell books/power sources/bla? Just have one big list of spells that everyone can pick from. The only reason why not is because a wizard casting heal spells would enrage a certain segment of the fanbase.


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I think wizards should be able to heal if they memorize the spell there are plenty of fantasy stories where practitioners of magic have the ability to heal and they are not religious figures at all.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Also, if you're going to do that, why even bother with differentiating spell books/power sources/bla? Just have one big list of spells that everyone can pick from. The only reason why not is because a wizard casting heal spells would enrage a certain segment of the fanbase.

Hey, that's what I do. Every spellcaster has a power source-- like in 4e-- and characters can learn spells from any class list within their power source at +1 spell level.

Following the different flavors of magic as different colors theme, I'd like to see a Magic-based magic system using the five colors of magic, with a system that lets them specialize anywhere from Master Specialist/Shugenja to Pathfinder Specialist to Universalist.

 

[Rechan]

Hey, that's what I do. Every spellcaster has a power source-- like in 4e-- and characters can learn spells from any class list within their power source at +1 spell level.

No, I'm talking that there is no difference in spell origin, no arcane/divine split. You simply have "Spells". So the same character could cast cure moderate wounds, fireball, and water walk.

 

[Stormonu]

eh, sounds like the magic colour wheel of Warhammer fantasy.

Wouldn't be a bad idea, but I don't think it'd be a fit for core D&D.

And, uh, we'd need the Black mage who uses the spells that make things fall down.

 

[CleverNickName]

I really hope that 5E is not going to continue on this trend of fairness and balance to the point that every character is the same and boring as hell.

Agreed. All I am saying is that the main differences between the characters should be done somewhere else besides game mechanics. If you want your clerics to really be different from druids, you can do it with different spells, abilities, and class features. You don't necessarily need a whole new way of casting spells to get a different look and feel.

The issue I feel with a white, green, gray mage is that they have the possibility to be very bland. Also I hate the names, sorry ,a white mage assumes a goodness and gray a neutrality at leas that is how it comes across.

As for the names, they are just placeholders. Besides--like you said in your Shadowrun example--they are just flavor differences. Instead of White Mage, you could always call it a Divine Mage or, you know, Cleric.

 

[Nifft]

Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved had this, sorta. Spells were divided into Simple, Complex and Exotic. All spellcasters had access to the Simple spell list. Spells had schools and keywords, which could be used by various classes to grant access to spells by theme. The healer-ish class also had access to all Positive Energy spells (even the Complex ones), for example.

Each Exotic spell cost a whole Feat to learn. The were super-rare. If you took one, you might be the only person in the kingdom who had even heard of that spell, and you were probably the only living person on the continent who could cast it.

It's a neat system.

Cheers, -- N

 

[FireLance]

Anything called "White Mage" would harken calls of videogamey.

So call it the "White Wizard" instead, and use the Tolkien Defence.

 

[Elf Witch]

Agreed. All I am saying is that the main differences between the characters should be done somewhere else besides game mechanics. If you want your clerics to really be different from druids, you can do it with different spells, abilities, and class features. You don't necessarily need a whole new way of casting spells to get a different look and feel.

As for the names, they are just placeholders. Besides--like you said in your Shadowrun example--they are just flavor differences. Instead of White Mage, you could always call it a Divine Mage or, you know, Cleric.

I think my issue with it is this is I want clerics in my game as representatives of the church. I want them to act different then wizards. I want them to have some different mechanics I don't like the idea of them being just a different type of spell caster.

My dream would be to tailor spells , weapons, armor to the type of deity the cleric serves. I would also like to see other religious classes with no spell casting. Under this system there would be no druids per say they would be a type of cleric who worships a nature deity.


Yes in Shadowrun it is flavor differences with one big mechanical difference in who and what they summon.

 

[SlyDoubt]

While I understand this perspective I feel it depends on the way it is packaged and presented. I could accept this if I wasn't told this was the system.

This is again basically just using the 4E roles as classes. It's the same basic concept. While I like that streamlined and elegant kind of design, it is also incredibly bland. I would love a card game, a simple rpg style boardgame (like talisman type thing) a video game, etc. designed like this. But not a p&p rpg called d&d (what a sentence!).

A druid is nothing like a cleric who is also nothing like a wizard. I don't want to see them use the same anything except 6 stats.

Classes need to be distinct and have unique and interesting abilities. If not, it's just 4E all over again which is, imho, not a good direction.