Cleric powers' "ally can spend a healing surge"

[SableWyvern]

Spending a healing surge is a required part of the action. But the action you're taking is not spending a healing surge--it's recharging the item. Spending a healing surge is part of the action of recharging an item

Again, I agree with the ultimate conclusion you're reaching, but what you're saying here is not prima facie true. I think it would at least as accurate to say that the action you are taking is "spending a healing surge in order to recharge an item."

There is no blatantly obvious chain of events that occurs when recharging an item. If I were to say, "When the space shuttle accelerates, it expends reaction mass in the process," that is not to say that expending reaction mass is a by-product of producing acceleration. It is, in fact, an integral part of the process, and it would be just as legitimate to say, "Reaction mass is expended in order to generate thrust."

Similarly, the section on recharging items could just as easily be written, "Expend a healing surge as you channel your vitality into the item," without changing what is being said. Reading too much into sentence structure and the ordering of phrases, when much of a sentence consists of flavour text, is not, IMO, a good way too go about making strict rule adjudications.

Fortunately, I don't think you need to strictly interpret the section on recharging one way or another in order to resolve the Healing Word dilema. As I mentioned initially, the intent of the rules on this matter seems pretty clear to me.

 

[Eldorian]

Really guys? You're arguing this?



I've play a war game by Privateer Press called Hordes. Its sister game is Warmachine. Maybe you've heard of them. They are also exception based games. Exceptions break the rules. When you spend a healing surge, you heal. If you're a dragonborn, you heal a bit more. If it was a cleric's heal, you heal a bit more. You can spend a healing surge on your self with the action Second Wind. You can spend a healing surge in the action for recharged a magic item (exception: you don't heal). You can spend a healing surge in the non-action of receiving a cleric heal (it's not a free action, it's a non-action, as it is not given an action's name). The cleric power does not allow you to take an action. The cleric's power does not allow you to take the standard action that it takes to recharge a power.

As for recharging the item without spending a surge, that is also impossible.

I quote:

"You can renew this item's power by taking a standard action to funnel your vitality into the item, spending a healing surge in the process."

If you do not have a healing surge, the process fails, and the action fails.

I can start my car, burning some gasoline in the process.

 

[SableWyvern]

Really guys? You're arguing this?

Welcome to the internet.

 

[silentounce]

I'd also like to point out that recharging the item in this way could be pointless depending on your tier and how many milestones you've reached. A heroic tier character can only use one item power per day unless a milestone has been reached. And if you do have the ability to use more item powers after having already spent one and you have more than one item with a power it may be more beneficial to save your surges for healing purposes and use your remaining daily uses on those other items.

Also, as someone mentioned earlier you are not "using a healing surge" to recharge the item. What you are doing is "taking a standard action to funnel your vitality into the item, spending a healing surge in the process." "In the process" is the key part of that text. The action isn't "spending a healing surge;" the action is "funnel[ing] your vitality." You use the surge during that process. I feel like I'm repeating myself. But I can't spell it out any clearer. All that is on page 226.

If you're going to play the RAW game, all healing word allows you to do is "spend a healing surge." It doesn't allow you to take "a standard action to funnel your vitality into the item." So, you can't use it in that way. It doesn't need to be any more specific.

 

[Magus Coeruleus]

Spirit, flavor, etc. aside, it's already been nailed as to what clarifies the issue, and that is that Healing Word neither grants nor requires an action to/from the recipient of Healing Word. Therefore, even if in theory that healing surge could be used to recharge an item, the individual would not be in a position to use it because it requires a standard action from the prospective recharger when it is in fact the cleric's turn, not the recipient's turn.

Just to seal this sucker even tighter, while it's true that the text does not explicitly say when you spend that surge, there is zero reason to believe that you could do so later, i.e. on your turn. If you could do that, it would mean that you could also choose to take your healing from Healing Word whenever you like after the cleric casts it, e.g. to reserve it until you are damaged enough to need it in a future round. If you think that idea is ludicrous then it likewise makes no sense to let someone recharge a magic item via Healing Word later when you have actions available.

Again, when Healing Word is cast it is not your turn and you have no standard action to apply toward recharging an item. Ok, I thought of yet another possible "yeah but," i.e. what if you ready your standard action to recharge as soon as Healing Word is cast? Nope, because you ready to either do it just before or after (ready rules specify this). At the instant Healing Word is cast, you may spend a healing surge, but you have no action at that instant. Your readying would-be-recharge comes too early or too late.

Argh, ok you might try to argue that at least the person using Healing Word (a minor action) could use it on themselves when they have a standard action still available on that turn to recharge, but I'm done. Phew!

 

[silentounce]

what if you ready your standard action to recharge as soon as Healing Word is cast? Nope, because you ready to either do it just before or after (ready rules specify this). At the instant Healing Word is cast, you may spend a healing surge, but you have no action at that instant. Your readying would-be-recharge comes too early or too late.

Argh, ok you might try to argue that at least the person using Healing Word (a minor action) could use it on themselves when they have a standard action still available on that turn to recharge, but I'm done. Phew!

Heh, both of those are amusing. The first after considering the fact that you could have just taken that standard action to recharge the item instead of readying it for later charging. The second one because you don't need to use a Healing Word in order to charge the item. You only need to use a standard action and expend a surge. Healing Word doesn't grant additional healing surges, so it wouldn't be help to someone who had spent them all if that's what you were getting at.

 

[Dacileva]

Spend a healing surge on what?

I know this has been mostly settled after discussion and debate, but this could very easily have been answered right here.

"Unless otherwise noted, only on what healing surges are used for by definition: "When you spend a healing surge, you restore lost hit points to your current hit point total." (PH 293)"

Pretty unequivocal. Any other use of healing surges is an exception that would be spelled out (like recharging magic items).

 

[SableWyvern]

I'd also like to point out that recharging the item in this way could be pointless depending on your tier and how many milestones you've reached. A heroic tier character can only use one item power per day unless a milestone has been reached.

Actually, I believe that the item uses per day rules only apply to items with Daily powers. Item powers that recharge with healing surges follow different rules (the Healing Surge recharge rules, in fact).

Edit: Checking the actual rules, I can see how they could possibly be interpreted to mean that using a Healing Surge limited power counts as using a Daily limited power. However, I very much doubt that is the intent.

Edit Again: Actually, it's pretty clear that the item power use limit only applies to Daily powers ("there is a limit to the number of magic item daily powers you can use on any given day."), and that a Healing Surge power is never referred to as a Daily power. All that is said is that there is a point of similiary between Daily and Healing Surge powers ("You begin with one use of the power per day, like a daily power." [Emphasis mine]).

 

[Eldorian]

Just to seal this sucker even tighter, while it's true that the text does not explicitly say when you spend that surge, there is zero reason to believe that you could do so later, i.e. on your turn.

The cleric power doesn't have a duration, therefore it is instant.


Also, to silentounce, it's the what "in the process" means in this case that's in question. I took it to mean the same thing that it means in this sentence: "I drove my car to the bank, burning gas in the process." It's not perfectly worded, but it's not bad. It's obvious, at least to me, that this action fails if there is no healing surge to spend in the process of spending life energy.

 

[silentounce]

Also, to silentounce, it's the what "in the process" means in this case that's in question. I took it to mean the same thing that it means in this sentence: "I drove my car to the bank, burning gas in the process." It's not perfectly worded, but it's not bad. It's obvious, at least to me, that this action fails if there is no healing surge to spend in the process of spending life energy.

Ummm... isn't that exactly what I said? It can't mean anything other than that, can it?

And, I believe you are correct sable, an item is either a daily or a healing surge. So, recharge away!!