Clerical spell Harm, too powerful?

[Celtavian]

Re

Tom Cashel and Lucius

Gentlemen's bet that harm is revised. I would bet money, but I probably don't live near you.

Only the most foolish game designer would not revise harm when heal gives undead a will save to resist the harmful effects. Or is the will save given to undead something the two of you haven't noticed?

 

[Firzair]

IMC we use a will save for half damage plus a cap of 150 hp (75 hp an a save).
Another try for heal and harm would be to let them do 10 points of damage/healing per level. Thus it's always useful but there's no dropping a dragon from 1000+ hps to 1d4.
But for now we're going with option one

Greetings
Firzair

Oh, and I also think that it will get revised !

 

[IceBear]

Re: Re

Tom Cashel and Lucius

Gentlemen's bet that harm is revised. I would bet money, but I probably don't live near you.

Only the most foolish game designer would not revise harm when heal gives undead a will save to resist the harmful effects. Or is the will save given to undead something the two of you haven't noticed?

I give Harm (and Heal vs Undead) a saving throw as a house rule, but I don't know where you're getting Heal gives Undead a save by the core rules.

From the SRD:

Heal

Conjuration (Healing)
Level: Clr 6, Drd 7, Healing 6
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

Heal enables the character to channel positive energy into a creature to wipe away disease and injury. It completely cures all diseases, blindness, deafness, hit point damage, and all temporary ability damage. It neutralizes poisons in the subject’s system. so that no additional damage or effects are suffered. It offsets a feeblemind spell. It cures those mental disorders caused by spells or injury to the brain. Only a single application of the spell is needed to simultaneously achieve all these effects.

Heal does not remove negative levels, restore permanently drained levels, or restore permanently drained ability scores.

If used against an undead creature, heal acts like harm.

IceBear

 

[Celtavian]

Re

Icebear,

You are correct. I must have had it confused with the Inflict spells. I will have to make sure to house rule Heal versus undead as well.

 

[IceBear]

You have too for balance - if you change harm you have to change heal the same way.

IceBear

 

[Tom Cashel]

Re: Re

Tom Cashel [and Lucius]

Gentlemen's bet that harm is revised. I would bet money, but I probably don't live near you.

I'll take that bet, Celtavian (even though my opinion on what to do with Harm is right there in my sig). But please don't put my name alongside the Rules Nazi anymore, okay? Thanks.

Originally posted by Ran
"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster... when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you."

That's Friedrich Nietzsche.

Go here to join S.H.I.N.Y.--Save Harm In the New Year.

 

[Lucius Foxhound]

Re: Re: Re

That's Friedrich Nietzsche.

I think Nietzsche was the nazi, Tom ... Mr. Flippity-Flop.


If they were going to change Harm, why wouldn't they have put it in the errata? After all, lots of other things have been corrected.

So if you're going to go the cowards way and house rule Harm, are you also going to make some Wizard spells less powerful? Perhaps beef up the damage a fighter can do? No, because it gets too complicated. 3E is pretty well balanced. That's why I rely on playtesting and why I wouldn't let players just say, make up their own prestige classes.

But please, be like Tom Cashel and make up your own house rules. While you're at it, scrap the rules and just do some live action role playing!

Lightning bolt! Lightning bolt! Lightning bolt!

 

[IceBear]

I honestly can't believe that you aren't trolling when you suggest that giving harm a saving throw would make clerics weak compared to wizards. That is one of the most silly statements I've heard on these forums, and I've been around a long time.

IceBear

 

[Tom Cashel]

But please, be like Tom Cashel and make up your own house rules.

Space Ghost: "Bad Foxhound! You go to jail now!"

 

[Lucius Foxhound]

I honestly can't believe that you aren't trolling when you suggest that giving harm a saving throw would make clerics weak compared to wizards. That is one of the most silly statements I've heard on these forums, and I've been around a long time.
IceBear

I didn't say that IceBear. What I said was, you're taking away from one class, therefore you need to take away from other classes as well. Why not give Power Word Stun a save to even it out?

My point was, you mess with the core rules, you pay the price.