D&D 5E Clerics and armor

[Kobold Stew]

So Clerics do not automatically have proficiency with armor and shields now, but proficiency is granted by the divinity chosen.

Of the 8 deity types, 5 give proficiency in all armor and shields; 1 gives proficiency in light armor only (Trickster), and 2 give no proficiencies (Arcanist, Lightbringer).

I like this: the decision offers the potential of granularity (and therefore differentiation between clerics), but for the most part it is not explored. Granting light-and-medium armor (e.g. for the Stormcaller), or all armor and no shields (e.g. for the Lifegiver, perhaps), etc. would open up more possibilities and expect different kinds of play from different clerics.

This also seems to be a late addition to the rules: the pre-gen cleric worships a Lightbringer deity (and so is a "laser cleric"), and has proficiencies in all armor and shields. Is this just a mistake? I think so.

So what do you think -- should all clerics have the same proficiencies? Are the differences they've introduced enough, or should there be more granularity? Is our human cleric a mistake? Should Lightbringers not have any armor proficiencies?

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Clerics have always had this battle between role (numerics) and flavor. There's a lot of deities in D&D, which means priests shouldn't be alike, but it's very hard to balance the various kinds together.

I think the rules for playable clerics should support adventuring clerics. That would mean medium or heavy armor for all (regardless of deity), depending on how the numbers work out.

For some deities, this would make little sense, though. Do clerics of Aphrodite really need to wear chain mail and the type of combat training needed to wield something bigger than a dagger? Well, no. There wouldn't be clerics of Aphrodite. There would instead be priests of Aphrodite, and that's a different class entirely, and possibly not one that will ever be playable. The one with the one-hour long healing "rituals" that leave the target exhausted. Do clerics of Orcus need healing powers? No. There wouldn't be any clerics of Orcus. There would be priests instead, kind of like the 4e invoker, which doesn't have any healing powers.

 

[the Jester]

Shades of 2e's specialty priests, which were the only area in which I feel 2e wins, hands down, over every other version of D&D. I would love to see more of this differentiation.

In the 2e days, I had a specialist priest write up of every god in my campaign, each with a list of weapons and armor allowed, spheres, extra spells, unique spells and granted powers. A cleric of my god of sailors, Decker, was limited to "I won't drown in this!" armor types and wielding the kinds of weapons sailors were prone to. They had spells involving water, the weather and commerce, but were poor healers at best and had none of the common priestly attack spells like flame strike or insect plague (though there was an aquatic variant, crustacean plague).

OTOH a priest of the death god Nerull in my game had training in all armor and shields, but in a specific suite of "reaper" weapons like the scythe. He could not heal; moreover, he could not accept healing from another (NOTHING must hold back death!). His magic was dissipating, disruptive, destructive and harmful to the recipient. He was the kind of guy who you expect to lay down a harm spell.

Here's hoping that 5e will continue to differentiate the clerics by god type while maintaining a good balance between them.

 

[timASW]

I dont think ANY clerics should have armor and weapons proficiency. Thats paladin territory. In my ideal world there would be no distinction between divine and arcane magic and "clerics" would be either mages or some sort of multiclass fighter/mage.

Barring that full change at least make them another kind of mage with the same limitations. Paladins should be the holy templars and clerics the robed priests.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

I'd say that medium armor is in kind of a tricky place right now - if you give a class only medium armor prof and not heavy, you're basically requiring them to have 14 dex. Higher and they'd be better off with light, less and they should wear heavy.

 

[tuxgeo]

Clerics have always had this battle between role (numerics) and flavor. There's a lot of deities in D&D, which means priests shouldn't be alike, but it's very hard to balance the various kinds together.

< snip whole paragraph >

For some deities, this would make little sense, though. Do clerics of Aphrodite really need to wear chain mail and the type of combat training needed to wield something bigger than a dagger? Well, no. There wouldn't be clerics of Aphrodite. There would instead be priests of Aphrodite, and that's a different class entirely, and possibly not one that will ever be playable. . . .

As a fan of the "Sailor Moon" anime/TV show, I would prefer that any clerics of Aphrodite (or as the Romans named her, Venus) be allowed to wear chain, and here's why:
Search Google Images for "venus love me chain" (with or without the quote marks) to see images of Sailor Venus' major attack in the show's second ('R') and third ('S') seasons. The attack manifests as a glowing chain made of heart-shaped links.

 

[tuxgeo]

Or, in a more serious vein, consider Corellon: he's so many things to the elves, it makes for quite a bit of confusion:
• He's the creator and Lifegiver of the elven race.
• He's their Protector.
• He's a Warbringer.
• He's the god of Arcane magic.

I think any elven cleric of Corellon should base his or her armor proficiency on Domain, not on Deity: if they serve Corellon in a Warbringing manner, they're trained to wear armor; but if they serve him in an Arcane manner, probably not.

The same goes for other gods: base the armor on the archetype chosen (effectively, the Domain), and not on the deity chosen.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Corellon himself is probably a bladesinger. Any way for a cleric to do that? (Said clerics would not wear armor, using magic instead. Maybe Magic Vestment on their clothes.)

As a fan of the "Sailor Moon" anime/TV show, I would prefer that any clerics of Aphrodite (or as the Romans named her, Venus) be allowed to wear chain, and here's why:
Search Google Images for "venus love me chain" (with or without the quote marks) to see images of Sailor Venus' major attack in the show's second ('R') and third ('S') seasons. The attack manifests as a glowing chain made of heart-shaped links.

(Not getting the joke)

That's a weapon, not armor. )

 

[Kobold Stew]

The same goes for other gods: base the armor on the archetype chosen (effectively, the Domain), and not on the deity chosen.

Even if this is not in the final rules, it is an obvious hack that will have no mechanical implications. Good call!

 

[Kobold Stew]

Shades of 2e's specialty priests, which were the only area in which I feel 2e wins, hands down, over every other version of D&D. I would love to see more of this differentiation.

<snip>

Here's hoping that 5e will continue to differentiate the clerics by god type while maintaining a good balance between them.

I agree -- there's some good possibilities here, intimated in the Trickster build right now.

(The thread emerged because I was looking at building a Lightbringer, and noticed the absence of armour proficiency. One way to overcome it was to be a mountain dwarf -- almost a required build for a laser cleric, and allowing medium armour, but not heavy (and so sidestepping in a way the concerns of ZombieRoboNinja). But the idea of a completely unarmed dwarf blasting beams sounded fun!)