Clerics and their faith

[DragonLancer]

I'm curious, how many of you have or allow clerics that follow a dogma, philosophy, or other non-god/non-outsider force, that provides them with their spells and abilities?

Its an option in the PHB, but I can't say I have ever used it. Same with Paladins, in my games they follow a deity not just a sense of reighteousness.

If you do allow clerics to follow a faith or philosophy, what made you come to that descision?

 

[Turjan]

I think this depends very much on the style of a campaign. If the campaign world does not have gods who are very hands on with the affairs of mortals but rather distant and non-NPC style, then the mechanism how a cleric "functions" is more like mobilizing the spells within himself through the power of his convictions. In this case, it does not matter what the exact nature of the conviction is, as long as it is strong enough to focus the cleric's energies.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Most games we play are FR games, and there divine spellcasters must have a patron deity, anyway. (In fact, it's highly recommended for every character to have a patron deity)

And for the rest of the time, we do it out of habit. In the moment we play a ravenloft campaign (evil gestalt characters). The Paladin (of Tyranny)/Favoured Sould in the group has The Lawgiver, I think. Though the others don't all have deities: The Wizard/Sorcerer worships magic (not exactly worships, I think), I don't know what the wereleopard worships, if anything at all, the Mindflayer doesn't have a truck with gods either, and my character doesn't really worships anything, he's more of a servant of Graz'zt (only fitting for an Incubus).

Generally, I think a deity is almost a must for a cleric. If I ever get to play a cleric (or divine spellcaster) in a non-FR game, I might give it a try, though. (Though next in line is the Drow Favoured Soul of Vhaeraun that will replace my Sorcerer for a while)

 

[Sejs]

Generally when I run, Clerics don't get their spells directly from their god anyway; Favored Souls do. Divine magic, prepared spell-slots style divine magic is a disciplined, learned science the same way that a Wizard's spellcasting is. A diety and their faith provides the framework that the character learned this skill in, but the actual magic is all done by the caster. The Cleric casts his spell, draws upon the magic of the world (mana if you prefer) and gets a desired effect. All self-contained. As I run it, a Cleric's diety doesn't have veto rights on the spells a cleric can cast or how they can cast them. The Favored Soul is another matter, however - the FS has essentially been tapped on the shoulder, given the thumbs-up and told by his god "Yer my boy". The god of an FS would (and does) have veto rights on what and how his vessels cast spells; however as the flip side to the Cleric coin, a god generally trusts his Favored Soul's judgement... if he didn't, the Favored Soul wouldn't have been chosen in the first place.


That all being said, essentially all Clerics in the games I run are Clerics of a dogma or philsophy or what have you. It's just that most of the time that dogma or philsophy is right in-line with a god's faith. To wit, they're the ones that taught the character to work magic in the first place. In theory a character could be taught those same skills by a teacher that isn't associated with a church at all, but those types are far less common.

 

[Darth K'Trava]

No matter which game it is, all our clerics follow a deity. Two they're required to do so as it's an FR campaign both times. The other two games, we just have them follow deities, I guess, to make things simpler. It's not required in these two games but we just do. Habit, I guess. Or real life creepin' in, I dunno....

 

[adwyn]

I have used a philosophy based religion in my games since early in my 1E days and have had few problems. Only once did I have a player refuse to participate because of the no god rule (he followed Thor in all games he played in).

The biggest issue has been following alignment. Players tend to think of the deities being an all seeing watchdogs, keeping clerics in line. This is one of the reasons I went with a philosophical church; it allowed for church corruption without the troubling "would our deity really allow that?" I leave the alignment problems, PC or NPC, to more secular branches of the church.

As to why I went that route;
1) Several players were touchy about religious issues, it was a neutral way to go.
2) No god calls. Not really a problem now days, but once upon a time everyone expected at least a chance to summon their god in times of need.
3) As above, allowed for some plot lines that an omnipotent, or even just powerful, deity wouldn't alow.
4) It set my game apart from the others we played in.

 

[Boojum]

In some games I would allow clerics to follow a philosophy, but in my current game world, Shattered Skies, the cleric class is specific to the service of the gods, with the practitioners of other philosophies and religions being represented by different classes (Witches for elementalism, shamans for ancestor worship, greenbonds for pantheism). Paladins, however, or rather holy warriors, can follow any religion or philosophy.

 

[Li Shenron]

I have been easy-going on this subject so far, but I have to say that it happened already twice that a player just exploited it to choose his 2 favourite domains and turn/rebuke option: "How did you end up with Beauty and Travel domain?" "Well I worship the idea of going around the world and looking for beautiful things" "Yes but... why rebuking/controlling undead?" "Ehm... they are beautiful... in their own way!". I am not sure if I am going to allow it again.

I think the option of godless clerics should have a meaning in your campaign. Otherwise I'd rather allow it to represent special priests of a whole pantheon (whenever appropriate): for example, one could be a gnome cleric of the whole gnomish pantheon, with the exception of Urdlen which doesn't fit. But it's still kind of limited, you definitely cannot be a cleric of the whole faerunian pantheon!

 

[Savage Jim]

I'm curious, how many of you have or allow clerics that follow a dogma, philosophy, or other non-god/non-outsider force, that provides them with their spells and abilities?

Its an option in the PHB, but I can't say I have ever used it. Same with Paladins, in my games they follow a deity not just a sense of reighteousness.

If you do allow clerics to follow a faith or philosophy, what made you come to that descision?

Yes, I have. And, to a degree, still do. The trick (in my opinion) is to not let the "religion" be as generic as the terms would suggest. When I apply them to a campaign world, they very much turn out to be just as detailed as a religion with a deity, with the same range of expectations regarding behavior, list of available domains, alignment restrictions, and so forth. This keeps such Cleric types from being abused.

As for role-playing, consider Monks (and most Psionic archtypes): They essentially gain their powers from such a philosophy, gaining their powers through a regiment of practice, meditation, and inner contemplation. A Cleric following a similar regiment (lifestyle, rituals, mantras, etc.) simply draws his power from without instead of within. Such religions, instead of having deities, are given histories that include a great teacher (such as the Vulcan philosopher that changed his race from feudal barbarians to logical thinkers), saints, or other icons that "show the way" rather than "being the way".

Simple as pie.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Generally when I run, Clerics don't get their spells directly from their god anyway; Favored Souls do. Divine magic, prepared spell-slots style divine magic is a disciplined, learned science the same way that a Wizard's spellcasting is. A diety and their faith provides the framework that the character learned this skill in, but the actual magic is all done by the caster.

*blink*

*blink, blink*

You know, this never even occurred to me--but I love it. The notion that divine magic is just a learned art that happens to be taught within a religious paradigm is a fantastic one. Kinda like old style Shao-Lin kung fu, in a way. It was an art taught by, and kept within, a religious order, but there was nothing inherently religious in the art itself. I've been casting about for a good, logical reason to explain the fact that clerics need to prepare spells in advance, and this is the first really good one I've heard.

While this wouldn't work for all campaign settings, it's perfect for those with more distant gods (or even a single, more distant God) than the norm. Consider this idea officially stolen for the first campaign I run where it's appropriate.