Clerics & Druids: musings

[danzig138]

Losing the armor proficiency wouldn't bother me, and it hasn't bothered my players. I removed heavy armor (War domains gets it), and everything's good. I don't know about the hit die reduction though. I'd have to ask my players what they thought about that.

 

[danzig138]

Clerics are Druids are fine as is.

Preach it brother! You have the truth in your hands! Obviously they are fine as is. I guess I should figure out why I've imagined all those threads, here and on other boards abobut how the Cleric and Druid classes are too powerful, or overpowered. Maybe I should see a shrink. . .Or maybe, in expressing why you think it's not a good idea, you might actually say why you think it's not a good idea instead of (editied due to possible personal attack).

 

[Nifft]

I have to admit there is another, subtler reason why I took away Cleric's heavy armor. I also told anyone wanting to play a Fighter or Paladin that the only excuses for Heavy armor are:

1/ a battle field against an honorable foe;
2/ a tourney; or
3/ when you are mounted.

In general, I'm not interested in forcing my settings to accomodate a stupid tin can. My PCs WILL get thrown into the water, they WILL have to clamber up the crumbling facade of an ancient zigurat, they WILL run across snow-blanked bough-bridges in the abandoned Elven capital... basically, I'm not interested in running every combat in a 10 ft. wide, 10 ft. high corridor.

Just like you can't count on using Ride-By Attack in every encounter, you should not count on using Heavy Armor every encounter.

So: I do what I can to discourage such reliance. The Cleric seems more reliant than the Fighter or Paladin. So, I took that away.

-- N

 

[Aus_Snow]

Clerics are Druids are fine as is. Why do you feel the need to reinvent the wheel? That said, you're the DM of your campaign, scum up whatever you feel like scumming up.

Why do you feel the need to 'scum up' the house rules forum with this kind of sheeplike rhetoric? If I'd posted this in the Rules Forum, well now...

But I didn't, for reasons such as this post of yours right there.

Shucks, why do people feel the need to 'reinvent' (improve/customise) anything, ever, with people like you bleating at them?


*deep breath*


OK. From now on, I will do my best to ignore everything on this thread other than constructive replies and suggestions for balancing factors. Your ability to read is appreciated.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Losing the armor proficiency wouldn't bother me, and it hasn't bothered my players. I removed heavy armor (War domains gets it), and everything's good. I don't know about the hit die reduction though. I'd have to ask my players what they thought about that.

If a hit die reduction was there, would there be anything that suggests itself to you as appropriate compensation?

 

[Aus_Snow]

In general, I'm not interested in forcing my settings to accomodate a stupid tin can. My PCs WILL get thrown into the water, they WILL have to clamber up the crumbling facade of an ancient zigurat, they WILL run across snow-blanked bough-bridges in the abandoned Elven capital... basically, I'm not interested in running every combat in a 10 ft. wide, 10 ft. high corridor.

Likewise.

But I can't honestly say that was a reason that I took it away from Clerics. It's just a matter of the concepts I (and some others) have of the various classes, and the fact that those concepts are at variance here and there with the concepts implied in the D&D RAW.

 

[Aus_Snow]

If you look at the numbers exclusively, like an accountant, clerics are over the top. Too powerful.

Ha! I mean, no. It's just funny, I haven't been 'looking at the numbers exclusively' at all. In fact, they're almost an afterthought, as this thread might indicate...

However, if you look at them with a bit of humanity in there, and include the fun-factor, and you'll notice that people just generally don't like playing clerics. Listen to your players over time; you'll see that the majority of the time when someone plays a cleric they flat-out say it's "only because the party needs a band-aid" or some such. Nail's right. Clerics need the deal sweetened to appeal to players.

That's the thing. They're very popular here. OK, that might be unusual, I'm fully prepared to accept that. But it's true anyway. There've been Clerics in almost every single campaign that I've run in recent times. The only one where there hasn't been, there was a Druid.

I mean, think about it. How often have you seen parties with two PC clerics?

One, consistently, is enough.

Now think about how often you've seen parties with two PC tanks, or two PC arcane casters.

Few.

Muck around with clerics at your peril.

I'll keep that in mind.. no wait, I won't.

But thank you for at least posting a considered response, albeit one intended to be dissuasive.

 

[Aus_Snow]

I'd say, if you drop them down to a d6 and knock off heavy armor, bump their skill points up to 4 to compensate. That gives them more of the priest/clergy aspect than the crusading warrior aspect.

Yes, I think that's a fair call. Do you think that would be enough, though? Maybe some more class skills too, minimum.

And Druids? Even more skill points? Something else, perhaps...


Anyway, when I'm closer to deciding something for both, I'll post it.

 

[Cannonfodder]

cleric changes

If you outright change clerics your players will feel cheated. You may want to tweak it into a new core class and say that clerics just dont fit the campaign but here are a priest and healer option for ya. That gets rid of the "I kick ass for the lord character." Otherwise extra abilities similar turning may offset the loss of armor: Aura of Protection 1/day AC deflection bonus = char bonus rnds = cleric level, Walk on Water, Levitate, etc. Could even make them so that you could blow a turn undead for the ability. Less hps let clerics lay on hands. Why do the gods like paladins more anyway?

 

[Drowbane]

Why do you feel the need to 'scum up' the house rules forum with this kind of sheeplike rhetoric? If I'd posted this in the Rules Forum, well now...

But I didn't, for reasons such as this post of yours right there.

Shucks, why do people feel the need to 'reinvent' (improve/customise) anything, ever, with people like you bleating at them?


*deep breath*


OK. From now on, I will do my best to ignore everything on this thread other than constructive replies and suggestions for balancing factors. Your ability to read isappreciated.

*edit*
Did you or did you not ask for opinions?

Are you wanting to change these classes because they're "broken" *snip*? Or because they don't gel with what you think they should be thematically?