kaomera
Explorer
So I picked up the new Star Wars Saga edition (d20) last week... I'm not finished reading through the whole thing, but it works on a somewhat slimmed-down d20 system. One of the specific things that was done was to combine similar skills so that there are now only 19 of them, even with new stuff like Endurance, Initiative, and Use The Force...
One thing that struck me right away was that the skills Climb, Jump, and Swim where all still there, as separate entries. This seemed a bit odd to me, and I wondered why they where not combined into an Athletics skill or the like. I don't seem to see these skills actually used all that often when I run or play D&D. It isn't exactly rare, and my experiences may be well apart from the norm, but it seems to me that players will usually avoid having to make such a skill check it's at all possible (assuming that the check would not be an automatic success or nearly so). (And I believe that the aversion to Swim checks, which are much less likely to have a really bad result from a single check, may have more to what kinds of creepies might be lurking under the water's surface than anything else.) As a matter of fact, I'm fairly well convinced that these skills aren't really all that much fun in play. I mean, it's fine when you succeed, and it can certainly make for a bit of tension, but if you fail such a check (can't climb the wall {or even fall} / don't manage to get all the way across the chasm / go under and start to drown), that's not all that cool, right?
Possibly it would just take more good opportunities to use such skills in a heroic manner, but it seems like if there is A) a meaningful reason to need to make such a check, and B) the check offers a decent challenge, then there's the real possibility of the PCs taking a significant setback on a single roll of the die. I know that's sort of part of playing D&D, and it doesn't need to be "save-or-die", but "save-or-suck" is nearly as bad and it's something I try to minimize.
Another aspect is that, as I mentioned, players seem to avoid such checks. Pretty much every action-hero-ish PC is going to have a decent amount of their skill points devoted to such skills, since they want to be able to do action-hero-ish stuff, but at the same time they will typically look for another way around as well as invest in equipment and/or powers that allow them to avoid actually having to roll. This is especially true of Fighters and the like. Pretty much any non-Rogue physically-oriented character (as opposed mainly to spellcasters) is likely to end up sinking (what is, IMHO) an overly large portion of their rather meager skill points to these skills, often for little return.
So I was just kind of wondering what was up with that... I mean, you don't have to invest in such skills, but is seems like an obvious move for a lot of characters. But at the same time, while you want your character to be able to "do his own stunts" if you will, it's really only cool when the character just barely makes it up the side of the cliff by the skin of his teeth, not so much when he falls to his death...
Anyone have any thoughts on how to resolve this issue? Specifically, is there some good way to ensure that a botched Climb or Jump check isn't going to make the game less fun?
One thing that struck me right away was that the skills Climb, Jump, and Swim where all still there, as separate entries. This seemed a bit odd to me, and I wondered why they where not combined into an Athletics skill or the like. I don't seem to see these skills actually used all that often when I run or play D&D. It isn't exactly rare, and my experiences may be well apart from the norm, but it seems to me that players will usually avoid having to make such a skill check it's at all possible (assuming that the check would not be an automatic success or nearly so). (And I believe that the aversion to Swim checks, which are much less likely to have a really bad result from a single check, may have more to what kinds of creepies might be lurking under the water's surface than anything else.) As a matter of fact, I'm fairly well convinced that these skills aren't really all that much fun in play. I mean, it's fine when you succeed, and it can certainly make for a bit of tension, but if you fail such a check (can't climb the wall {or even fall} / don't manage to get all the way across the chasm / go under and start to drown), that's not all that cool, right?
Possibly it would just take more good opportunities to use such skills in a heroic manner, but it seems like if there is A) a meaningful reason to need to make such a check, and B) the check offers a decent challenge, then there's the real possibility of the PCs taking a significant setback on a single roll of the die. I know that's sort of part of playing D&D, and it doesn't need to be "save-or-die", but "save-or-suck" is nearly as bad and it's something I try to minimize.
Another aspect is that, as I mentioned, players seem to avoid such checks. Pretty much every action-hero-ish PC is going to have a decent amount of their skill points devoted to such skills, since they want to be able to do action-hero-ish stuff, but at the same time they will typically look for another way around as well as invest in equipment and/or powers that allow them to avoid actually having to roll. This is especially true of Fighters and the like. Pretty much any non-Rogue physically-oriented character (as opposed mainly to spellcasters) is likely to end up sinking (what is, IMHO) an overly large portion of their rather meager skill points to these skills, often for little return.
So I was just kind of wondering what was up with that... I mean, you don't have to invest in such skills, but is seems like an obvious move for a lot of characters. But at the same time, while you want your character to be able to "do his own stunts" if you will, it's really only cool when the character just barely makes it up the side of the cliff by the skin of his teeth, not so much when he falls to his death...
Anyone have any thoughts on how to resolve this issue? Specifically, is there some good way to ensure that a botched Climb or Jump check isn't going to make the game less fun?
