Climb, Jump, Swim...

[monboesen]

Ideally I'd like an option that will let the players roll dice during combat, give them a meaningful bonus for success (and probably a noticeable, but not crippling, penalty for failing), allow them to get positive circumstance modifiers for good thinking / planning, not slow down the game too much, encourage cool descriptions / action scenes, and that the players will voluntarily attempt, rather than having to force it on them.

Have you looked at the Stunt mechanic from Iron Heroes?

 

[kaomera]

Have you looked at the Stunt mechanic from Iron Heroes?

I've looked at Iron Heroes a bit, but I don't think I really saw the Stunt mechanic, or at least it made no real lasting impression. I am somewhat more familiar with "Action Zones" (IIRC that idea is from IH, and is called that. I could have gotten either part wrong...), which seems like a neat idea. Prep would be a bit of an issue there (not much, but it would not really be workable for on-the-fly encounters, I don't think), but the real problem would be getting my players to actually read a handout before a fight detailing what stuff they could do. Again, if there was some way I could have this down on the table (or at least reminders / DCs), I think it might be something I could maybe pull off.

 

[monboesen]

Here is the way I introduce stunts to my players. Just to give you an idea what it is all about. There are more types of stunts than these two.

Offensive Stunts

Attack stunt (Full round action)
Describe your stunt. Roll opposed skill check, using the skill the DM find appropriate. You take a -4 penalty on your skill check on a Hard difficulty stunt and a -10 penalty on a Impossible difficulty stunt.

Examples: Use the Jump skill to leap over a foe and attack him from above. Use Balance to run along a giant’s club and slash at its arms. Use Tumble to dodge between an ogre’s legs while slashing at it from behind.

Normal difficulty
+1 to hit or +2 damage

Hard difficulty
+3 to hit or +4 damage

Impossible difficulty
+6 to hit or +7 damage

Inflict penalty (Standard action)
Describe your stunt. Roll opposed skill check or base attack check, as determined by the DM. You take a -4 penalty on your skill check on a Hard difficulty stunt and a -10 penalty on a Impossible difficulty stunt.

Examples: Use a base attack check to throw sand in an ogre’s eye. Use Bluff to trick an opponent into letting his guard down for a moment. Use a base attack check to slam your shield into a foe, knocking him off balance. Use the Use Rope skill to lasso a foe and hinder him for a few moments.

Normal difficulty
Enemy takes -2 penalty to attacks, defense or skills and ability checks for 1 round.

Hard difficulty
Enemy takes -4 penalty to attacks, defense or skills and ability checks for 1 round; or a -2 penalty to attacks, defense or skills and ability checks for 3 rounds.
.
Impossible difficulty
Enemy takes -7 penalty to attacks, defense or skills and ability checks for 1 round; or a -4 penalty to attacks, defense or skills and ability checks for 4 rounds.

 

[kaomera]

Here is the way I introduce stunts to my players. Just to give you an idea what it is all about. There are more types of stunts than these two.

I'll have to get my hands on a copy of Iron Heroes. Can I assume that the Attack Stunts include an attack in the full-round action? Or do you use the Stunt and then it applies to the next rounds' attacks?

 

[monboesen]

You get the attack in the same round. If you take a -5 penalty to your stunt you can move your speed before the attack.

 

[BradfordFerguson]

OK, I'm running a campaign where the PCs are bounty hunters, so you all have inspired me to combine some skills:

Athletics: Climb & Jump
Light Feet: Balance & Tumble
Notice: Listen & Spot
Stealth: Hide & Move Silently

Combined skills will be class skills if your class(es) has both skills as class skills.


I'm also thinking of Fast Talk: Bluff & Gather Information. I don't really see the power in players having high gather info, the only problem as a DM is coming up with the information that skill checks gain.

 

[RFisher]

Not many climbers are good swimmers, and not many jumpers are good climbers.

Pen & paper RPGs can't represent every variable in human abilities, so you can always make those kinds of statements to argue for splitting things into ever more discrete chunks. Not many high-jump champions are long-jump champions.

Although I'm pretty sure that nigh everyone who can climb better than myself can also swim & jump better than I can.

I think it really comes down to what you want the focus of your game to be. I can't say that combining climbing, swimming, & jumping into one skill is appropriate for every game, but neither can I say separating them is appropriate for every game. Just as the virtues & passions of Pendragon are perfect for Pendragon but not for every RPG.

 

[LightPhoenix]

Athletics: Climb & Jump
Light Feet: Balance & Tumble
Notice: Listen & Spot
Stealth: Hide & Move Silently

I prefer Perception and Acrobatics as names, but that's basically how I would do it as well. Swim would be folded into Athletics.

On the subject of partial success...

The important thing about introducing partial success is that there should be some degree of extrodinary success as well, in my mind. The idea with either and both is to encourage people to use skills more, ostensibly for more flair or just to give rogues a bit more to do in action scenes. Just allowing for a partial success mitigates the win/lose way skills work, but doesn't make them overly exciting in my eyes. Extrodinary success does that, as well as giving a reason for skills to be +20, and possibly even mitigating the problem of ever-increasing DCs.

If I ever DM another game, I'd only have a true failure (ie falling when jumping over rooftops) if you fail by a certain amount - probably by five or more. Between the DC and -5, you lose a round recovering - either climbing up or stabilizing yourself or some such. If you beat the DC by ten, you get something extrodinary - you jump from one rooftop, crouching into a roll as you hit the second one, and throw a dagger at the fleeing bandits. I guess something along the lines of a partial action, though that may be too much. I haven't really put serious thought into it.

 

[Ranger REG]

Pen & paper RPGs can't represent every variable in human abilities,

Perhaps, but I'm talking about nonhumans.

If your PnP RPG is all about humans, then by all means bundle them into one Athletic skill.

Some nonhumans don't have the same bipedal humanoid body to able to do all three of the athletic capabilities, though humans can suck at one or two of them (but they're still capable).

 

[Hussar]

On the note about pirate campaigns - it's easy to combine most of the skills needed on ship into one skill - profession sailor. Anytime you need to make any sort of check related to running, operating, or whatever on a ship, you use your Profession Sailor skill.

That way the fighters and other low skill classes can still do all the fun stuff while on ship, but aren't outshining the skill monkeys all the time.

I am considering altering the rules a bit further and allowing Profession skills to be used in similar circumstances, but at a penalty. For example, I can see someone with Profession Sailor knowing how to tie knots. So, he takes a -5 penalty to Use Rope whenever he's not on a ship. Things like that.