Cloak of Mage Armor

[gabriel_z]

Gabriel Z based on your interpretation of the rules I could very well make a glove with the effect of True Strike on it as a use activated item that gives me a +20 to any attack.

For another item that doesn't fit well within the rules, think about bracers of true strike. If true strike wasn't a 1st-level spell those bracers would clearly be priced by the epic rules (+20). Most DMs I know therefore price them as epic items if they allow them at all.

Of course, were I in your game, I would then take that same reasoning and make my Gloves of True Strike, using the same reasoning as you give for the cloak, that it's a use-activated continuous magic item, and thus get myself a +20 bonus to hit on every swing.

True strike (3/day) gauntlets cost 3500 gp.

You cannot extend "True Strike" to be contiuous since it has no duration that is measure in rounds/minutes...
Nor can you make it a use-activated[\I] since it has an effect for only the next attack role , provided it is done in the next round!
What you can do, is make it use-activated[\I] with 5 charges/day, where the "use" is "drawing the weapon" (see boots of speed[\I], you have to knock the heals etc.), and according to the guidlines the glove should cost
Gloves of True Strike: CL1 x SL1 x 2000gp (Use-Activated) x 1.5 (Wrong item affinity)=3500gp
The Gauntlets should cost 2000gp

I agree. I was just saying it is a use activated item requiring a standard action to do so. Whereas the Bracers of Armor are always in effect.

Not necessarily. See Boots of Speec[\I], actvated by a free action and conrespond exactly to the guidelines table.

except with the longer duration of mage armor, you set your CL high enough and you're only casting in a few times a day, which combat-wise the same as having it always on, what are the odds your 8 hour duration spell expires in the 1 minute of combat that you have ?

Setting the Caster Level[\I] to 8 will make the item 8 times more expesive!!!

 

[VanRichten]

Look at the following (Note this is just using the Core DMG):

Cloak

Continuous +4 Armor Bonus
No Armor Check Penalty
No Chance of Spell Failure
Works against Incorporeal Attacks
Virtually No Weight
No Maximum Dexterity Bonus

Now compare that to a +3 Ghost Touch Leather Armor 16150+ gp:

Chest Slot
+4 Armor Bonus
Little to No Armor Check Penalty
5% Chance of Spell Failure
Works against Incorporeal Attacks
5lb Weight
+8 Maximum Dexterity Bonus

Functionally these are the same. However if you look at the details you have to say the cloak is by far a better deal. So in your opinion is the cloak valid in cost?

Now if you include the shield effect that was mentioned then it looks like this:

Cloak, 4500gp

Cloak Slot
Continuous +4 Armor Bonus, Continuous +4 Shield Bonus
Immunity to Magic Missles
No Armor Check Penalty
No Chance of Spell Failure
Works against Incorporeal Attacks
Virtually No Weight
No Maximum Dexterity Bonus

Now compare that to the above armor but including a shield because armor does not give a shield bonus:

+3 Ghost Touch Leather Armor and +3 Ghost Touch Buckler, 32300+ gp

Armor Slot and Shield Slot

Continous +4 Armor Bonus, Continous +4 Shield Bonus
Little to No Armor Check Penalty
10% Chance of Spell Failure
Works against Incorporeal Attacks
10lb Weight
+8 Maximum Dexterity Bonus

Do you still think this is balanced?

Now for those who argue the Bracers of Armor look at this:

Bracers of Armor +8 (to get equivalent bonus to armor), 50000gp

Arm Slot
Continuous +8 Armor Bonus
No Armor Check Penalty
No Chance of Spell Failure
Works against Incorporeal Attacks
Virtually No Weight
No Maximum Dexterity Bonus

Cloak, 4500gp

Cloak Slot
Continuous +4 Armor Bonus, Continuous +4 Shield Bonus
Immunity to Magic Missles
No Armor Check Penalty
No Chance of Spell Failure
Works against Incorporeal Attacks
Virtually No Weight
No Maximum Dexterity Bonus

Do you still find this balanced in cost?

I gotta say if the answer to this question is yes then I got a great deal for you. I have some ocean front property in Arizona, and if you buy now I will throw in the Golden Gate Bridge for free.

 

[Folly]

"You cannot extend "True Strike" to be contiuous since it has no duration that is measure in rounds/minutes..." -gabriel_z
True strike has a duration, so there is no reason it couldn't be made continuous. The catch here is that the duration ends once the target makes an attack.

"Nor can you make it a use-activated since it has an effect for only the next attack role , provided it is done in the next round!" -gabriel_z
True strike states your next attack provided it happens before the end of the next round. This means if you quicken a true strike you can use the benefit on an attack made in the same round.

"What you can do, is make it use-activated with 5 charges/day, where the "use" is "drawing the weapon" (see boots of speed, you have to knock the heals etc.), and according to the guidlines the glove should cost" -gabriel_z
These activation methods are all free actions, there is no reason it couldn't be a free action done between swings. Thereby circumventing the buff ending on use.

The combination of these means that it is possible to make an item that costs 2000 (for example bracers) That would give a +20 insight bonus to hit and ignore all concealment on every swing the character ever takes for 2000 gold. This is one of the examples I was talking about when I said the equation for magic items that emulate equations are terrible at estimating cost. Its either too cheap (for low level spells) or too expensive (generally higher level spells)

 

[gabriel_z]

Cloak Slot
Continuous +4 Armor Bonus, Continuous +4 Shield Bonus
Immunity to Magic Missles
No Armor Check Penalty
No Chance of Spell Failure
Works against Incorporeal Attacks
Virtually No Weight
No Maximum Dexterity Bonus
.

Cloak cost,
continuouse Shield: 1x1x2000x2 +
Continouse Mage Armor 1x1x2000x1.5
for total 7500gp and not 4500gp.

You are forgetting the Ghost Touch can be worn by incorporeal creatures without loosing their special abilities.

And like someone mentioned, a targeted dispell, is a very effective method to fighting wizards, in which case the cloak's protection won't hold

Gaby

 

[Slaved]

Ghost Touch

GHOST TOUCH PROVIDES MANY BENEFITS THAT THE CLOAK DOES NOT!

You are taking a +3 Enhancement and stripping away much of what made it +3 in the first place!!!! The part about it working against Incorporeal Attacks is the WEAKEST part of what it does!!!!!

How about a +5 Twilight Mithral Chain Shirt? 37,150 Gold Pieces, +9 Armor Bonus, +6 Maximum Dexterity Bonus, 0 Armor Check Penalty, 0% Arcane Spell Failure, 12.5 Pounds.

I think that Twilight is Overpriced for what it does but at least this is a better comparison than Ghost Touch!!!!!

 

[billd91]

GHOST TOUCH PROVIDES MANY BENEFITS THAT THE CLOAK DOES NOT!

You are taking a +3 Enhancement and stripping away much of what made it +3 in the first place!!!! The part about it working against Incorporeal Attacks is the WEAKEST part of what it does!!!!!

How about a +5 Twilight Mithral Chain Shirt? 37,150 Gold Pieces, +9 Armor Bonus, +6 Maximum Dexterity Bonus, 0 Armor Check Penalty, 0% Arcane Spell Failure, 12.5 Pounds.

I think that Twilight is Overpriced for what it does but at least this is a better comparison than Ghost Touch!!!!!

Now you're just being silly. And I would say that working against incorporeal attacks is most certainly NOT the weakest thing ghost tough does... for PCs, that is.

 

[Slaved]

Why is the Arguement silly????

For Player Characters how common are Incorporeal Touch Attacks? For Creatures that are Incorporeal how good would it be to have an Armor Bonus to Armor Class?

 

[Hypersmurf]

GHOST TOUCH PROVIDES MANY BENEFITS THAT THE CLOAK DOES NOT!

Ghost Touch provides one benefit that the cloak does not, and it's a benefit that only a fraction of a percent of all PCs will ever be able to use, since incorporeal PCs are rare.

The +3 MPM is almost entirely based on the item providing its armor bonus against incorporeal attacks.

I think the issue with using Ghost Touch Leather Armor as a pricing guide, though, is that Ghost Touch becomes more valuable the higher the armor bonus of the armor it is applied to. +1 Ghost Touch Full Plate costs only 6 or 7 percent more than +1 Ghost Touch Leather Armor, but the armor bonus it provides against incorporeal attacks is over 200% higher.

-Hyp.

 

[VanRichten]

Look at the following (Note this is just using the Core DMG), Van Richten

That is in response to the Twilight Armor statement.

You are forgetting the Ghost Touch can be worn by incorporeal creatures without loosing their special abilities. Gaby

As for the Ghost Touch being worn by incorporeal creatures you are correct it can be. However unless the DM expects his ghosts to be removing the armor from his PCs and putting it on I think this is a point that can be disregarded.

And like someone mentioned, a targeted dispell, is a very effective method to fighting wizards, in which case the cloak's protection won't hold. Gaby

Let us remember that any item with a magical effect can be dispelled with Dispel Magic. Now if you are saying that the Cloak casts the spell then you would be right it would be easily dispelled, however in the following round the wearer could then recast the Mage Armor effect. In the case of the Ghost Touch armor this is not the case. The Ghost Touch armor would be shut down for a number of rounds specifically detailed under Dispel Magic. The only way this would fall true is if the caster of Dispel Magic specifically targetted the cloak instead of the spell it is casting.

And though I have never disagree with you on the math of what the DMG says on creating the cloak. I asked again: Do you think the item is equivalent to others in the DMG?

If so this applies:

I have some ocean front property in Arizona, and if you buy now I will throw in the Golden Gate Bridge for free.

 

[Slaved]

Ghost Touch provides one benefit that the cloak does not, and it's a benefit that only a fraction of a percent of all PCs will ever be able to use, since incorporeal PCs are rare.

The +3 MPM is almost entirely based on the item providing its armor bonus against incorporeal attacks.

I think the issue with using Ghost Touch Leather Armor as a pricing guide, though, is that Ghost Touch becomes more valuable the higher the armor bonus of the armor it is applied to. +1 Ghost Touch Full Plate costs only 6 or 7 percent more than +1 Ghost Touch Leather Armor, but the armor bonus it provides against incorporeal attacks is over 200% higher.

-Hyp.

Ghost Touch allows Incorporeal Creatures to Pick Up, Move, and Wear the Item. It also allows the Armor Bonus to work against Corporeal Creatures while the Wearer is Incorporeal. It also is able to move through Solid Objects with an Incorporeal Creature.

From the Magic Item Compendium there is the Greater Crystal of Screening. It Costs 3000 Gold Pieces and it provides a -10 Penalty to Touch Attacks made against the Wearer by Incorporeal Creatures.

+5 Twilight Mithral Chain Shirt plus Greater Crystal of Screening. 40,150 Gold Pieces, +9 Armor Bonus, +6 Maximum Dexterity Bonus, 0 Armor Check Penalty, 0% Arcane Spell Failure, 12.5 Pounds, -10 Penalty on Touch Attacks made against Wearer by Incorporeal Creatures.