Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Slaved said:
Right.
Bracers of Armor help define that balance based on their price, and help to determine the price of other items.
-Hyp.
Cloak of Mage Armor
- Thread starter arnon
- Start date
Right.
Bracers of Armor help define that balance based on their price, and help to determine the price of other items.
-Hyp.
Hypersmurf said:
But based on other Options the Price of Bracers of Armor are Balanced Incorrectly.
Do you feel that the Mage Armor Spell is Overpowered for its Cost and Effect? It may be placed on any Creature and the Duration is sufficiently long that it can be considered a Constant Buffing Spell early in the Game.
Do you feel that the Price any Light Armor is Balanced Incorrectly?
Do you feel that an Armor Bonus to Armor Class should be as valuable as a Luck Bonus to Armor Class as some have suggested?
Do you feel that there is a Balance Issue with making the Bracers of Armor Cheaper?
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Slaved said:
No.
No.
No. Armor bonus: bonus squared x 1000. Luck bonus to AC: bonus squared x 2500.
The armor bonus is about two-fifths as valuable as the Luck bonus.
I don't feel there's a balance issue with not making them cheaper, so why should I change the rules where no issue exists?
-Hyp.
Hypersmurf said:
Enhancement to Armor Bonus costs Bonus squared times 1000 Gold.
Armor Bonus is not defined in the Magic Item Creation Rules but Armor Bonuses are the Cheapest and Easiest Bonus to Buy for Armor Class next to Shield Bonus. Bracers of Armor do not Give an Enhancement to Armor Bonus instead they give an Armor Bonus. This could mean that the Magic Vestment Spell could be Cast on the Bracers of Armor and the Armor Class Bonus would be Increased the same as a Suit of Armor would.
There is no Issue for you and that is Fine. There is an Issue for me and I feel that I have made my Case sufficiently to Warrant a Price Reduction.
A Character attempting to Create an Item that gives an Armor Bonus to Armor Class should not be Penalized by the Poor Pricing of the Bracers of Armor!!!
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Slaved said:
It's indirectly defined in the Magic Item Creation rules, via the 'compare to similar items' rule.
Target: Armor or shield touched
You imbue a suit of armor or a shield with...
Bracers of Armor, as neither armor nor shield, are not a valid target for the Magic Vestment spell.
A Character attempting to Create an Item that gives an Armor Bonus to Armor Class should not be Penalized by the Poor Pricing of the Bracers of Armor!!!
A character attempting to create an item that gives an armor bonus to AC should compare the pricing to the existing item that gives an armor bonus to AC - Bracers of Armor.
"Poor pricing" - sorry, "Poor Pricing" - is a subjective judgement. What's objective is that the pricing of Bracers of Armor is 1000gp x bonus squared, and that's what new items get compared to.
-Hyp.
Hypersmurf said:
The Similar Items are Normal Armor since those are the Closest in Effect.
Hypersmurf said:
System Resource Document said:
So the Character merely has to designate the Bracers as part of their Regular Clothing.
Hypersmurf said:
Existing Items may be Poorly Priced. Take a look at the Magic Item Compendium.
I have shown why I believe the Bracers to be Poorly Priced and I feel that the Argument holds up under Scrutiny.
Elethiomel
First Post
Uh, from whom exactly? The only one you could wish to argue to in order to "Warrant a Price Reduction" would be a GM.Slaved said:There is no Issue for you and that is Fine. There is an Issue for me and I feel that I have made my Case sufficiently to Warrant a Price Reduction.
A Character attempting to Create an Item that gives an Armor Bonus to Armor Class should not be Penalized by the Poor Pricing of the Bracers of Armor!!!
And I disagree. There is no hard cap on Bracers of Armor's combined armor and dexterity bonus to AC, and hence it is a superior option in any situation where that is relevant. It starts being highly relevant around level 12 for a character who focuses on dexterity; it is consistently relevant for anyone who cannot wear armor for any reason.
You keep comparing the bracers to Mage Armor, the spell. That's fine. If you have a character who can cast Mage Armor, then that is apparently the best option to go with. Unless you get ambushed when not prepared. Or attacked after more hours of sleep than the duration of Mage Armor. Or someone tosses a Dispel Magic your way. Hence I'm fine with an item that can cast Mage Armor N times a day at caster level M, but not fine with an item that provides the continous benefit of Mage Armor, because that is an entirely different kettle of fish.
As others have mentioned, comparing Bracers of Armor to an item that follows the guidelines for a continuous 1st level spell is like comparing enhancement bonuses to weapons to an item that follows the guidelines for a use-activated 1st level spell (True Strike). It is obviously going to come out in the "custom item"s favour with regards to performance per gold piece. That is the point. People still buy Bracers of Armor, because there is a market for them. And as long as there is a market for them, and not every character buys them (i.e. if it is an item that every character would want to have because it is obviously better than any possible other item at that price, like the use-activated true strike weapon) it is balanced enough to not warrant a change in most campaigns.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Slaved said:
No, the Bracers are the closest in effect - they give an armor bonus based on a magical force effect. Normal armor doesn't.
If you're making a cloak that duplicates the effect of a Mage Armor spell continuously, that's giving an armor bonus based on a magical force effect, and it's closer to Bracers of Armor than it is to a chain shirt. So Bracers of Armor are what you use for the comparison.
If you designate them as part of regular clothing, then they count as armor that grants no AC bonus, and the Magic Vestment enhancement bonus will get added to "no AC bonus".
-Hyp.
Will
First Post
You know, as an aside, it's kind of interesting that bracers of armor provide an armor bonus and not an enhancement to armor bonus.
Presumably, a mage with a cleric friend could have bracers of armor and then add magic vestment on TOP. Maybe make some sort of spellswap deal.
'You cast that, I'll cast...'
Kind of interesting. I can't imagine many clerics bothering to use bracers of armor, though.
Wonder who else might want to make use of this...
Presumably, a mage with a cleric friend could have bracers of armor and then add magic vestment on TOP. Maybe make some sort of spellswap deal.
'You cast that, I'll cast...'Kind of interesting. I can't imagine many clerics bothering to use bracers of armor, though.
Wonder who else might want to make use of this...
Shin Okada
Explorer
Will said:You know, as an aside, it's kind of interesting that bracers of armor provide an armor bonus and not an enhancement to armor bonus.
Presumably, a mage with a cleric friend could have bracers of armor and then add magic vestment on TOP. Maybe make some sort of spellswap deal.
Kind of interesting. I can't imagine many clerics bothering to use bracers of armor, though.
Wonder who else might want to make use of this...
As already mentioned, the bracers are not valid target of Magic Vestment spells. So if the mage is not wearing any other armor, the only valid target of Magic Vestment spell is his normal (AC +0) clothing. The mage only gets two different Armor Bonus (one from his Bracers of Armor and one from his garment under the effect of Magic Vestment spell) which over-wraps and does not stack.
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