Infiniti2000
First Post
Congratulations on the impending baby, Greybar! 
Give us all the details as you can.
Give us all the details as you can.
Clubhouse: The Shearing Pen
- Thread starter GuardianLurker
- Start date
Greybar
No Trouble at All
TOC question - is CR7 on pause? I hope it's not waiting on me. If I can get the NG potential combatants I'll line them up and eagerly present them for battle!
On the other hand, if we happen to pause a week or two I could do that too.
On the baby news - technical EDD is 5/18, but our first child was early and we understand the second child tends to be earlier than the first. We have a 3 year old (Joe) now who is an absolute joy and is really looking forward to teaching a little sister how to "crawl and walk and talk" - all of which I believe he expects that she'll do in a couple of days after she is born.
On the other hand, if we happen to pause a week or two I could do that too.
On the baby news - technical EDD is 5/18, but our first child was early and we understand the second child tends to be earlier than the first. We have a 3 year old (Joe) now who is an absolute joy and is really looking forward to teaching a little sister how to "crawl and walk and talk" - all of which I believe he expects that she'll do in a couple of days after she is born.
Congratulations that your son does not view his sibling as a rival!
The ToC pause is my fault - the main battle is starting to wrap up and I'm hesitant to start a ToC that might not finish. I guess I need to launch a referendum to determine if the ToC should continue. Please vote now!
I am also taking suggestions on what rule changes should take effect in the semifinal round. Should we adopt all the rules introduced in the exhibition arena? I am neutral on this subject, except if we allow lineup shuffling, I would prefer that the CR order be preserved, forcing the general to enter the arena last.
Here are some minor rules that I would like changed:
1) Grappling has been changed again in the official sources, so I would like to keep pace. First, I found a ruling in the FAQ that negates natural 20's and 1's with opposed grapple checks. Second, the RotG has been amended to allow all natural attacks occur at -4 to hit, not just one attack. Finally, if the monster chooses to use opposed grapple rolls, and improved grab is not a factor, then the resulting damage is non-lethal (I guess the dragon sits on you).
2) Camping in the VZ must occur on the Prime Material plane to have an effect. Using the ethereal plane defeats the purpose of the VZ rules.
Please vote on these two suggestions and add suggestions of your own!
The ToC pause is my fault - the main battle is starting to wrap up and I'm hesitant to start a ToC that might not finish. I guess I need to launch a referendum to determine if the ToC should continue. Please vote now!
I am also taking suggestions on what rule changes should take effect in the semifinal round. Should we adopt all the rules introduced in the exhibition arena? I am neutral on this subject, except if we allow lineup shuffling, I would prefer that the CR order be preserved, forcing the general to enter the arena last.
Here are some minor rules that I would like changed:
1) Grappling has been changed again in the official sources, so I would like to keep pace. First, I found a ruling in the FAQ that negates natural 20's and 1's with opposed grapple checks. Second, the RotG has been amended to allow all natural attacks occur at -4 to hit, not just one attack. Finally, if the monster chooses to use opposed grapple rolls, and improved grab is not a factor, then the resulting damage is non-lethal (I guess the dragon sits on you).
2) Camping in the VZ must occur on the Prime Material plane to have an effect. Using the ethereal plane defeats the purpose of the VZ rules.
Please vote on these two suggestions and add suggestions of your own!
Infiniti2000
First Post
1. Continue the ToC.
2. The two rules from the Exhibition Arena I like are (a) enter as a move action or teleport and (b) prebuffing. The choosing of the order is nice, and keeping it by CR would be okay.
3. I always used those grappling rules anyway.
4. Nice prime material camping rule.
Has anything ever used the dirt and/or trees to any effect? The water has been used but nothing else. Maybe the VZ could be a 10ft-wide (or 20ft) strip down the center of the VZ running north to south.
2. The two rules from the Exhibition Arena I like are (a) enter as a move action or teleport and (b) prebuffing. The choosing of the order is nice, and keeping it by CR would be okay.
3. I always used those grappling rules anyway.
4. Nice prime material camping rule.
Has anything ever used the dirt and/or trees to any effect? The water has been used but nothing else. Maybe the VZ could be a 10ft-wide (or 20ft) strip down the center of the VZ running north to south.
1. Yes, continue the ToC.
2. The two rules from the Exhibition Arena I like are (a) enter as a move action or
teleport and (b) prebuffing. I would prefer that the order of combatants stay as it is.
3. I agree that the grappling rules should be changed to the above,
4. I initially thought that a combatant could not hide in the Ethereal Plane to force a draw and was surprised the first time it happened. This should definitely be changed.
I like Infiniti's idea about the Victory Zone. A twenty-foot wide strip from the north wall to the south wall from 50E to 65E would be a good idea, without changing the composition of the arena.
2. The two rules from the Exhibition Arena I like are (a) enter as a move action or
teleport and (b) prebuffing. I would prefer that the order of combatants stay as it is.
3. I agree that the grappling rules should be changed to the above,
4. I initially thought that a combatant could not hide in the Ethereal Plane to force a draw and was surprised the first time it happened. This should definitely be changed.
I like Infiniti's idea about the Victory Zone. A twenty-foot wide strip from the north wall to the south wall from 50E to 65E would be a good idea, without changing the composition of the arena.
Greybar
No Trouble at All
You know, I had always thought of the ToC as a series of unconnected fights, unlike the Exhibition Arena which is really the "batting order" of one big fight, more like the BoAA, so with that in mind:
1. I'd like to continue to ToC.
2. I like the enter as move action. I like more pre-buffing, as it allows the spell-using creatures to not immediately get over-mobbed as soon as they enter. I could see how unlimited pre-buffing might be too much though. One (chaotic) possibility would be that unlimited pre-buffing is allowed, but each combatant is hit by a Dispel Magic as they enter, the CL of which is equal to the current CR of the ToC match.
I like the long-strip VZ - presumably the strip is considered at 0z and doesn't go down underwater, right?. And the adamantinum area would remain, allowing ground creatures some cover from those trying to stay only in the air? So the impact would be that it becomes harder to monopolize the VZ with a very large creature sitting on it, or walling it in.
1. I'd like to continue to ToC.
2. I like the enter as move action. I like more pre-buffing, as it allows the spell-using creatures to not immediately get over-mobbed as soon as they enter. I could see how unlimited pre-buffing might be too much though. One (chaotic) possibility would be that unlimited pre-buffing is allowed, but each combatant is hit by a Dispel Magic as they enter, the CL of which is equal to the current CR of the ToC match.
I like the long-strip VZ - presumably the strip is considered at 0z and doesn't go down underwater, right?. And the adamantinum area would remain, allowing ground creatures some cover from those trying to stay only in the air? So the impact would be that it becomes harder to monopolize the VZ with a very large creature sitting on it, or walling it in.
ugulu
First Post
I have not been following the exhibition arena - is there a short-list of differences from the usual?
Maybe also lowering the roof of the current VZ to 20' would still allow anything to fit, but would also give more cover to land-based guys stuck vs. a flyer.
And if we're going for suggestions-from-left-field: I think the dirt floor is non-used because of the current VZ rules. If you spend one round to dive, a second to hide, and a third to surface, you could easily get counted-out. If the strip was instead through the middle of the arena east-to-west, then it would be central, and allow easier recovery to reach the VZ. Not sure if the trees could ever come into play unless a fiendish treant gets loose.
What if there were two VZ's, once at each end, instead of one? That would also prevent the camping since the opponent could also outwait you at the other VZ.
Final bit I'd suggest is something like: instead of having to suffer through a rust dragon, take 10hp off the opponent and just move on to the next LE goon.
Maybe also lowering the roof of the current VZ to 20' would still allow anything to fit, but would also give more cover to land-based guys stuck vs. a flyer.
And if we're going for suggestions-from-left-field: I think the dirt floor is non-used because of the current VZ rules. If you spend one round to dive, a second to hide, and a third to surface, you could easily get counted-out. If the strip was instead through the middle of the arena east-to-west, then it would be central, and allow easier recovery to reach the VZ. Not sure if the trees could ever come into play unless a fiendish treant gets loose.
What if there were two VZ's, once at each end, instead of one? That would also prevent the camping since the opponent could also outwait you at the other VZ.
Final bit I'd suggest is something like: instead of having to suffer through a rust dragon, take 10hp off the opponent and just move on to the next LE goon.
First, in the expedition arena, a combatant can either teleport in as a move action, or come straight in at 0Z from any point along its side of the arena, just like in the old days. Second, the next combatant is shown on a screen and gets to cast spells on itself while waiting for its predecessor to be defeated. Finally, the order of the combatants is not set in stone, but decided by the general as soon as each combatant on that general's side is defeated. If the final change were taken in TBoAA, the combatants would still enter in order of CR, with the lowest first.
Infiniti suggested the VZ goes from north to south as a twenty foot wide strip.
I like the idea of the Victory Zone roof being lower. It would give some creatures the chance to jump and climb onto the roof.
Infiniti suggested the VZ goes from north to south as a twenty foot wide strip.
I like the idea of the Victory Zone roof being lower. It would give some creatures the chance to jump and climb onto the roof.
The first thing that comes to mind regarding a long VZ strip is that more mobile creatures would gain an advantage. The purpose of keeping the VZ small is so that big melee brutes can teleport in, then camp out and wait to deal more punishment without having to chase a flyer around. In the case of a strip, the flyer could land in the VZ and possibly avoid a charge attack if the opponent is very slow (trust me, there are still some slow creatures left).
The lowering of the VZ roof makes more sense in this regard.
I think the reason the dirt is not used is because we have not had any burrowers lately. Wait until the sand dragon comes back in and see if he is tempted to snipe from there.
I'll be going on a mini-vacation and will be back on Sunday. Please keep the suggestions coming!
The lowering of the VZ roof makes more sense in this regard.
I think the reason the dirt is not used is because we have not had any burrowers lately. Wait until the sand dragon comes back in and see if he is tempted to snipe from there.
I'll be going on a mini-vacation and will be back on Sunday. Please keep the suggestions coming!
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