Col_Pladoh? Original Kobolds, canine or lizard-like?

[Poster Bard]

I've heard the debate so many times and have never heard the definitive answer from the source. Since you are here, and sometimes people ask you questions directly, I thought I would do the same.

Original Kobolds, canine or lizard-like?

Thanks in advance if you see this and answer!

 

[Moon_Goddess]

I believe if memory servers me, that the orginal mythology that kobold is just a word for a goblin that lives in a mine. So not canine or reptile. But that's just stupid, isn't wannabe dragons much better?

That's the problem with mythology nothing clear about it. Everything has hundreds of different names and each name desribes something different, and all the same thing.

 

[Poster Bard]

The original MM says no hair, etc. but the illustrations, both the one by the description and the full page one, on the following page, depict them with definite canine snouts. Tough call if you ask me.

 

[Darraketh]

kobold n (G., from M.H.G. kobolt, fairy) in German folklore, (a) a helpful or mischievous sprite in households; a brownie; (b) a gnome in mines and other underground places.

Webster's New Twentieth Century Dictionary - Unabridged

 

[MythandLore]

I believe if memory servers me, that the orginal mythology that kobold is just a word for a goblin that lives in a mine. So not canine or reptile.

Yep, pretty mucn, but most of the time they have been discribed as being blue.

The original MM says no hair, etc. but the illustrations, both the one by the description and the full page one, on the following page, depict them with definite canine snouts. Tough call if you ask me.

Yep, it's a tough call, I want to know what he was thinking too.

 

[Darraketh]

I've always though of them as having features of reptiles and canines. Just from the picture, scaly reptile hide, canine snouts and teeth.

Their social structure is akin to that of canines. However they do have horns.

I've played them as barking and howling when they get excited.

 

[mythusmage]

After Years of Research

The result of genetic sequencing in the city of Greyhawk 2000 (now Greyhawk 2002) has shown that kobolds are actually highly evolved dicynodont therapsids. Kobold "creationists" have attacked the results.

The results are in the process of being verified, but should they hold up it would appear that the kobold will have to be moved from his position next to dragons and placed in among the reptile-like mammals. For now the consensus is that the kobold is more closely related to the human than he is to the lizard man.

There has been some controversy over the kobold's position as reptile or mammal, based in large part on the structure of their jaw hinge, and the shape and positioning of the ossicles of the inner ear. This parallels the similar controversy over the same structure in monotremes, which are classified as mammals. Some have pointed out the similarities between the two groups in that area, and have claimed that the kobold's jaw and inner ear is actually more advanced than that of the echidnas and the platypus. Because of that they have proposed that the kobold be named a mammal, while the monotremes be relegated to the rank of reptile.

The whole "scale" controversy, it turns out, was based on a single subject with a bad case of a kobold genetic disorder. In this disease the subject's skin will become heavily "cornified". That is, the skin will become rough and "scaly" in patches. Kobolds refer to it as, "dragon hide". A healthy kobold has soft, supple skin, appearing much like human skin. As with humans calluses are known to form on the soles of the feet and the palms of the hands in those who walk barefoot and/or engage in heavy labor. Unlike humans, kobold hair remains short and fine throughout their lives, and all over the body. No head or groin hair in other words. The presence of finger and toe claws marks another visible difference between the two species.

Subtle and gross skeletal differences firmly separate humans and kobolds. The latter having certain primitive features no longer possessed by the former, as well as derived skeletal features evolved by the latter since the two lines diverged sometime in the late Triassic.

As you can see the "kobold matter" is at once simpler, and more complicated than the layman is aware of.

 

[Altalazar]

They look and sound Dog-like - at least the ones I've seen. If you want to see them too, just get Baldur's Gate...

 

[Decamber]

Anyway they are very cute in the MM!

 

[Moon_Goddess]

Re: After Years of Research

The result of genetic sequencing in the city of Greyhawk 2000 (now Greyhawk 2002) has shown that kobolds are actually highly evolved dicynodont therapsids. Kobold "creationists" have attacked the results.

Alan, That was great! I disagree with the findings (what kobold wouldn't.) But still a great report, seems like you've put a lot of thought into the mattter.

Man Greyhawk 2000 really needs to be a fleshed out setting, hopefully that will be part of d20 modern.