Collegiate wizard, feedback please!

[green slime]

Whats with forum people being so angry? sheesh

Its not anger, its light sarcasm.

Most people aren't trying to be nasty (well, at least not all ), more it is a symptom of the way this media (forums in general) functions. Important signals present in most direct communication channels are lost: tone and timbre of voice, facial expression, stance, all provide important clues as to what is exactly really being said. The semi-immediacy of this media lends itself to quick and to-the-point posts.

Secondly, designing PrC's is handled different between different DM's. Personally, I find PrC's that surpass base classes without sacrifing anything to be distasteful. IMO, a PrC should always be developed with a base class or multiclass combo in mind. There are so many "bad" (overpowered) PrC's out there, that it is not such a good idea to use a PrC as a base, unless you are first very comfortable with the power level that it presents.

Now power in and of itself, is not a problem. As a DM, I can always challenge a player. The problem exists, when players with overpowered characters start dominating the spotlight, and spoiling other players fun. This is especially true, when different PC's share a niche (Tank, Healer, Scout, Blaster, etc) in the team effort. Were all PrCs more carefully balanced with the base classes, this would be far less of a problem.

 

[ravenshrike]

Not angry in the least, but honestly did you try to make it balanced when you put it together?

A PrC is to give up a bit in one area, and gain some in another area. Not give up practically nil and gain heaps of abilities.

Have we looked at the same spellcasting PrC's? Either they lose too many levels of spellcasting or are entirely too powerful. The balanced full spellcaster PrC is few and far between.

 

[Notmousse]

Which is why I don't like most full caster PrCs

Of course the Alienist is a documented case of a PrC that punishes you for all the caster levels you get, but most of the time it's you get the spells and more frosting for your cake.

 

[bestone]

Why stop at all kinds of magical power? You can give them a 1.5 BAB advancement, and all good saves, and D20s for HD!

So mr. snarky but, instead of poking fun, why not do something productive and tell me how you think i can fix it?

 

[Arkhandus]

Nothing says every comment on the forums has to be a helpful one. Get a sense of humor, you'll have fewer heart attacks that way.

Basically, what your class does is give a wizard everything he already has and a bit more, with no real price to pay. No tough or annoying feat/skill/special-ability prerequisites. No lost caster levels, previous multiclassing, or other stuff given up. Just no familiar improvement. In exchange for that lack of familiar improvement (which isn't very significant), your class grants 1 extra feat (compared to a straight wizard advancement), +3 divided up any way they choose amongst their saves against magic, and 4 extra spell slots most of the time.

I'd say.......drop the spellcasting increase of 4th-level, and that of 6th-level.

At the very least, drop the 6th-level spellcasting increase and change the 3rd-level feat to Spell Mastery. That probably won't be enough balancing, but it might be sufficient.

 

[rgard]

Have we looked at the same spellcasting PrC's? Either they lose too many levels of spellcasting or are entirely too powerful. The balanced full spellcaster PrC is few and far between.

Yes, hard to find. My feel for a balanced full spellcaster PrC is to replace the Wizard bonus feats with feats or abilities that define the PrC and something else thrown in to compensate for the loss of familiar growth, again along the lines of the theme of the PrC.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[bestone]

Nothing says every comment on the forums has to be a helpful one. Get a sense of humor, you'll have fewer heart attacks that way.

Sorry, you misinterpreted what i meant, i may have not been clear so this may be my fault.

I figured snarky butt was a humorous statement, and would show i was only kidding.

Really i just wanted to goad him for his input on how he thinks it could be balanced.

 

[Notmousse]

So mr. snarky but, instead of poking fun, why not do something productive and tell me how you think i can fix it?

Don't have a lot of time, but I'd scrap and start over from square one.

I'll post details Sunday most likely.

 

[Notmousse]

Okay, this class just reeks of the moldy limburger, but that aside I'll see what I can do to save it, or at least it's flavor.

First the requirements are minor, can be had by 5th with ease, especially if you plan on giving away Collegiate Wizard. As a GM I generally dislike strong PrCs that can be had so easily. I'd change the requirements to be Know Arcana and Spellcraft 8, Spell Focus (any three), and Forge Ring. Still able to qualify at 5th level, but doesn't require the free feat. School Ring is proof of one's affiliation with a college of wizardry, given to graduates, staff, and fellows of a wizard's college.

The progressions will be B B B G just like the original, D4 HD, 2 + Int skillpoints, I'll even keep it full caster. The real problem comes in that the PrC gives full caster and then roughly 5 feats worth of abilities on top of it.

First thing is to nix the Improved Saves ability, it's just silly to have a +1 enhancement bonus to a save in certain circumstances.

Second we revamp Spell Storing. Forge ring comes into play here as you create a specialized version of a ring of spell storing (or even two if you can manage it). It improves at 10th level as a 'capstone ability'.



Collediate Wizard
Requirements:
Skills: Knowledge: Arcana, and Spellcraft 8 ranks
Feats: Spell Focus (any 3), Forge Ring.
Spells: Ability to prepare 3rd level wizard spells
Special: School Ring

Level Bab Fort Ref Will Special Spellcasting

1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Spell storing +1 level of wizard
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 +1 level of wizard
3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 +1 level of wizard
4th +2 +1 +1 +4 +1 level of wizard
5th +2 +1 +1 +4 Spell Focus +1 level of wizard
6th +3 +2 +2 +5 +1 level of wizard
7th +3 +2 +2 +5 +1 level of wizard
8th +4 +2 +2 +6 +1 level of wizard
9th +4 +3 +3 +6 +1 level of wizard
10th +5 +3 +3 +7 Improved Spell Storing +1 level of wizard


Spell Storing: You create a specialized ring of spell storing. It may only be used by you, takes up a ring slot, and can be improved as you level in the PrC. You may store any spell(s) for which you have the appropriate Spell Focus feat and equal no more than your PrC level by casting them into the ring. You enhance your School Ring for this purpose, which costs 25xp per PrC level. 0 level spells count as one half level for storing (much like in the rest of the game).

At 5th level you gain Spell Focus (any).

Improved Spell Storing: You may store any spell you know into your School Ring at 2 times it's normal spell level if you do not have the appropriate Spell Focus feat.

 

[Sound of Azure]

Still able to qualify at 5th level

Are you sure?

Forge Ring
You can create magic rings, which have varied magical effects.
Prerequisite: Caster level 12th

Even if you could pick up Forge Ring at 5th level, only a human would qualify this soon. Others would need another level to qualify.