D&D General Combat Against Player Engagement: A Systemic Challenge

Spike ("competitive player" that wants to win and show off their skill) is just completely stranded in most RPGs. Playing to win is just boring, because most RPGs are broken and will immediately fall apart if you play them to win. I don't really have a solid solution here (and frankly I don't know if there is a need for one—there are plenty of outright competitive games to play) but hard victory conditions and tighter balancing tend to help.
After 40 years of them I'm more than used to Spike players. :)

The way to both engage them and deal with them is to become a bit more adversarial as DM: when Spike pushes the rules envelope, push back; when Spike finds a broken-but-legal rules exploit, shut it down and ban it*; and otherwise throw decent challenges at them and let Spike try to be the best on the team. Oh, and the existence and use of hard loss conditions can help too, as obviously Spike wants to avoid those.

In Magic terms, you're emulating the DCI here.
 

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While I understand if a player enjoys combat the most, I do not understand the sort of person that just sits there waiting until combat starts, not engaging with anything.
Oh, I do - it's the same person who tunes out the moment dialogue starts in an action movie and doesn't tune back in until the action resumes.

I've DMed one or two of those in the past.
 

I returned to in person recently and we barely get anything done. I enjoy the game but feel like I’d get more out of it if it was online.
I observed the same. In person is much more fun to me, due to direct interaction, having physical minis and maps and pens, having cross-talk, its just more liveley. But we always get much less done than in online play.
The rules of modern D&D are way to codified to essentially ignore like that. You are going to need some solid, consistent house-rules for interrupts that work in a balanced way with the existing turn order and action economy.
No you just move their turn forwards. As stated if they don't want to they just use their normal turn later on. There is a common DM strategy for undecisive players to move their turn down in the initiative order until they know how they want to act. Nobody wrotes under these advices a lot about turn order and action economy. I think if you leave the "one turn per player per round" intact, you can more or less do what you want with initiative order. I tried a lot of different initiative rules, none effects balancing a lot - if you keep "one turn per player per round" intact. I honestly think it wouldn't even break that hard if you sometimes give a "narrative turn" to a player who already had their turn. Its not that they can count on these opportunities. And balancing is an illusion anyway, but thats a different discussion.

Another initiative thing I tried out in my last 5e campaign with great success: Group Initiative. Everybody rolls against the monsters static initiative. Than we have one group who beat it, the monsters, the group who didn't do it. Inside one group all players can completely do actions and movement in whatever way they want, completely mixing up their turns. This led to basically only 3 big turns per round and much more player engagement, because they were "active" while 3 other players were also "active" and they could collaborate etc. It also led to more swingy combats which was fun to us, but might not be something for everybody.
 

All of that assumes of course that narrative intent is one of your groups goals, or the game's. If you don't see collaborative storytelling as the primary purpose of your RPG play, then you need to find a different solution to the problem presented by the OP.
This is our table. In combat everyone is engaged, in social or exploration half of the table zone out.
 

Inspired by another thread on the topic, I decided to take a slightly different angle and dig a bit deeper into why players lose engagement during combat, exploring broader approaches—both structural and narrative—that can help keep everyone involved throughout.

Introduction
I consider the goal of every GM is to keep their players engaged, regardless of the system in use or the scene being played. Players share in that responsibility as well, by actively participating, preparing for their turn, and remaining mentally present. Yet some parts of the game inevitably break momentum and slow things down with procedure and technicality—most commonly, the combat phase.

When I think about engagement during combat, I focus on two dimensions: engagement with the rules, and engagement with the story. Rules define how the game operates, but they can also become obstacles if applied in ways that interrupt flow or pull players out of the moment. Many solutions for this are well-known and easy to implement once the issues are recognized.

The more challenging aspect lies in the combat itself. In systems like D&D, combat is a core part of gameplay, but it is often treated as a distinct mode that interrupts other types of play. The table often shifts from narrative and free-flowing to tactical and procedural. For some, this shift enhances the experience, particularly those who enjoy tactical play. For others, it is a pause to endure, with the outcome often predictable and the process feeling repetitive.

The issues are not simply “initiative is cumbersome” or “players need to describe mechanics more vividly.” They are symptoms of deeper structural and behavioral dynamics that shape how combat is experienced. Understanding these dynamics is the first step toward approaches that preserve both story momentum and player engagement—without resorting solely on surface-level fixes.

Procedural Segmentation
Combat systems like D&D are inherently structured. Players enter these games knowing that battles will occur and that rules, options, and strategies are heavily focused on that mode. The challenge is not the combat itself, but how the system enforces sequencing. With multiple participants, each individual must wait for others to complete their turns, plus the GM who must resolve the actions of all adversaries as well.

The primary difficulty in keeping players engaged arises when it is not their turn. For the game to feel continuous and dynamic, every player must remain connected to the unfolding action. Decorating dice rolls or embellishing descriptions helps only the active participant; it does little for those who are waiting. True engagement requires that players feel their choices, abilities, or presence are influencing events even while they are technically “offline.”

The deeper question is how to structure combat so that all players experience a sense of participation throughout the sequence, preserving narrative momentum without breaking the rules or forcing artificial speed-ups.

Passive Role Conditioning and GM Bottlenecking
When players perceive that they cannot meaningfully influence the game until it is their turn, disengagement often follows. They become spectators in their own story, watching others deliberate, consult notes, and roll dice. For some, the enjoyment comes from playing, not passively observing, which makes the downtime between turns feel tedious. Engagement during combat, therefore, depends not only on what each individual does, but also on how the actions of others affect the group’s shared experience.

Meanwhile, on the GM’s side of the screen, engagement presents a different challenge. Running a skirmish requires managing rules knowledge, arbitrating actions fairly, and controlling multiple adversaries in a way that is simultaneously threatening, entertaining, challenging, and strategic. These demands often force a shift in focus due to the added cognitive load straining against mental bandwidth. Narrative flow gives way to mechanical resolution, creating a bottleneck that can exacerbate player disengagement.

Some narrative-focused systems provide solutions by distributing part of that responsibility to players. Games like Genesys (Star Wars) or Daggerheart share narrative control, encouraging collaboration throughout every stage of play, including combat, and ensuring that all participants have opportunities to contribute—even when it is technically another side or player’s turn. By embedding engagement into the mechanics and narrative structure itself, these systems reduce procedural rigidity, maintain flow, and create an environment in which every player feels actively involved.

Expectation Mismatch and Lack of Immediate Stakes
Even within a system like D&D where the rules are heavily combat-focused, not all players approach the game the same way. Some lean toward narrative exploration, roleplaying, or social interaction, valuing those elements over tactical skirmishes. For these players, no amount of initiative tricks, descriptive flourishes, or mechanical workarounds will fully sustain engagement during combat. Their investment lies elsewhere, which can create a disconnect when the game pivots into the “gamier” mode of fighting.

The deeper issue is often not combat itself, but how combat is positioned relative to the story. Battles that exist in isolation, without evolving or external consequences, can pause the narrative for some participants. For players who prioritize story, this creates a perceptual gap: “their game” is on hold while others indulge in mechanics-driven play. The result is either disengagement—checking out mentally until the action concludes—or a drive to expedite resolution, sometimes at the expense of meaningful tension or challenge.

Even when combat is narratively meaningful, structural rigidity in turn sequencing can still undermine engagement. When the stakes evolve alongside the story and players perceive that their actions affect the larger world, the game maintains attention for everyone. Without that integration, even skilled GMs and clever pacing cannot fully resolve the engagement gap.

Rule Adherence vs. Game Flow
Even when combat is narratively meaningful, structural rigidity in turn sequencing can still undermine engagement. Many commonly offered solutions—initiative tweaks, minor mechanical bonuses, or incentivizing descriptive flourishes—address only surface-level engagement. They may help players who are already invested stay focused, but they do little to resolve the systemic issue embedded in the structure of the game itself. Combat is designed around predictable loops: roll initiative, act in sequence, wait, repeat. Even when turn order is varied each round, the fundamental problem remains—players experience downtime and a sense of passivity.

The more effective approach requires breaking that expected loop and creating moments of reactive opportunity. For example, consider a moment when an orc lands a critical hit on the party fighter. Traditionally, everyone else continues waiting for their turn, unable to react in the moment. A more dynamic alternative is to grant the rogue, positioned nearby and yet to act, an opportunity to respond in the moment. This response is contextual—it must target the threatening enemy or aid the endangered ally—and must be decided immediately. If the player hesitates or wish to act outside the narrative context, they defer to their normal turn order.

By embedding these reactive options to respond to events as they occur instead of forcing everyone to wait patiently for a spotlight, the GM preserves the integrity of the game while simultaneously keeping players engaged. The system’s rules remain a framework rather than a prison: momentum continues, narrative stakes evolve, and every player experiences agency even when it is not formally their turn. This principle—prioritizing flow over strict procedural adherence—provides the foundation for a combat experience that is both mechanically coherent and narratively compelling.

Conclusion
Combat engagement is not a simple problem of initiative rolls, descriptive bonuses, or minor mechanical tweaks. It is a systemic issue rooted in how turn-based play structures attention, divides agency, and isolates players from the story. Downtime, passive roles, and predictable sequences are symptoms of this deeper design reality.

Addressing it requires thinking beyond surface-level solutions. Momentum must be preserved, narrative stakes must evolve alongside action, and opportunities for meaningful participation should extend to all players, even when it is not formally their turn. By prioritizing flow and player agency over strict procedural adherence, GMs can transform combat from a repetitive loop into a shared, dynamic experience that sustains engagement for the entire group.

Ultimately, keeping players engaged in combat is less about changing the system itself than about leveraging its flexibility to support collaborative storytelling. When players feel their choices matter, when actions carry narrative weight, and when everyone has a chance to influence the outcome in real time, combat ceases to be a pause in the story and becomes an integral, exciting part of it.
Interesting thoughts.

Keeping in mind that not all players are the same, therefore there is no solution which works for everyone at the same table, here are also some thoughts of mine.

1) Procedural segmentation has the benefit of making combat simpler in a few ways.

First of all, it establishes that everyone actually has a turn, which is not at all established in other phases of the game! There are in fact plenty of players who struggle to significantly participate outside of combat, not least because there might be other players with a dominating personality, always makes decisions without leaving enough room for others. At least with sequential combat, everyone is guaranteed to have a turn, and for that turn to be equal to others' turns.

Second, it makes resolution very simple: player acts, DM resolves.

But indeed there can be problems with sequential initiative because the most tactical players will want to maximise the outputs from their turn, and won't accept to be told to make decisions quickly, and a DM forcing them to make decisions within a certain time can be perceived as very disrespectful or even hostile; more carefree players are done with their turn quickly and spend most of the time waiting for others.

2) Complexity in any aspect of the game makes things worse...

Having 20 spells to choose from obviously slows the turn down.

Having a complex action economy is even worse, which is why I generally prefer games which give you one action + move. Already when you start having a secondary action (like 5e bonus actions) you get players wasting time trying to figure out how to "fill the bonus action slot", as the game becomes more of a matter about not wasting action resources.

3) Simultaneous initiative can help

I prefer sequential initiative in general, but I also think that in case where disengaged players are a problem, it might be a good idea to try out simultaneous initiative i.e. round-based insted of turn-based: have all the players together do a "scrum" where they decide what each character does at this round, then let the DM resolve everything. This is of course very straining for the DM, because the resolution is a lot more complicated, especially if you don't want to change how other rules of combat work (such as reactions and readying actions).

4) Forget about flourish descriptions

Honestly, I saw this happen hundreds of times: on the first session, the DM describes every attack narratively with the attempt of making every action colorful and diverse. By the second session, or even the second combat everybody's already bored with description after description, and just want to move on. Reserve descriptions for the killing blow, that's enough.

5) Do not complicate further

If you think that adding more ways to interrupt someone's turn in order to engage another player, think again. To add a bit of salt here and there it can be ok, but at least I would not add rules for that, otherwise it can very much be that once again it will be those tactical players to use such rules to interrupt the turn of the less engaged players instead of the opposite.
 

I want to note that I think it's a mistake to say that these kinds of "reactive narrative" action opportunities given to PCs in the circumstance aren't a houserule. Quite frankly, that's not how the combat system works, so allowing it is a houserule, and one that can add a non-negligible amount if power to a PC. That's fine, but there's no benefit IMO to pretending it isn't a houserule.
You can call it a houserule if that helps you sleep at night, but doing so frames it in a way that misses the point. Labeling it that way implies a change to the system itself, which it isn’t. If read carefully, you’ll see the approach doesn’t grant new options or power to anyone—it simply adjusts turn structure to meet the flow of the narrative as it evolves. This is a table rule, not a system rule—something closer to a shared understanding among players than a rewrite of procedure. Calling it a houserule is technically fine, but it misrepresents its intent as part of the table’s social contract rather than a mechanical alteration.

Of course, this assumes that it’s even a viable solution for your table—or that there’s even a problem to solve in the first place. This isn’t a universal fix, or even a universal issue. It’s not meant for everyone. But I appreciate you sharing your own perspectives to help illustrate that point.
All of that assumes of course that narrative intent is one of your groups goals, or the game's. If you don't see collaborative storytelling as the primary purpose of your RPG play, then you need to find a different solution to the problem presented by the OP.
 

After 40 years of them I'm more than used to Spike players. :)

The way to both engage them and deal with them is to become a bit more adversarial as DM: when Spike pushes the rules envelope, push back; when Spike finds a broken-but-legal rules exploit, shut it down and ban it*; and otherwise throw decent challenges at them and let Spike try to be the best on the team. Oh, and the existence and use of hard loss conditions can help too, as obviously Spike wants to avoid those.

In Magic terms, you're emulating the DCI here.
My take is to tell the player that if we're going to go down that route for them, the enemies are also going to be able to use it. I find that, with some exceptions, knowing that they'll be on the receiving end of whatever crackpot maneuver they've come up with as well helps them reconsider.

Oh, I do - it's the same person who tunes out the moment dialogue starts in an action movie and doesn't tune back in until the action resumes.

I've DMed one or two of those in the past.
Again, I like a good action scene, but only watching those parts of the movie, how do you get the context for what's going on? How do you know who you're fighting and why in the game?

My brother was running a game where they were trying to deal with a possessed dragon. The party had decided to focus on stopping the possession. The PC that tunes out non-combat stuff, just goes in full blast on the dragon.
 

You can call it a houserule if that helps you sleep at night, but doing so frames it in a way that misses the point. Labeling it that way implies a change to the system itself, which it isn’t. If read carefully, you’ll see the approach doesn’t grant new options or power to anyone—it simply adjusts turn structure to meet the flow of the narrative as it evolves. This is a table rule, not a system rule—something closer to a shared understanding among players than a rewrite of procedure. Calling it a houserule is technically fine, but it misrepresents its intent as part of the table’s social contract rather than a mechanical alteration.

Of course, this assumes that it’s even a viable solution for your table—or that there’s even a problem to solve in the first place. This isn’t a universal fix, or even a universal issue. It’s not meant for everyone. But I appreciate you sharing your own perspectives to help illustrate that point.
I'm a technical person. If the PC is given the opportunity to take an additional action beyond what the rules allow, it's a houserule, and one that potentially gives the PCs more power in the moment than the rules would normally allow. Looking at it differently doesn't change that.
 

My take is to tell the player that if we're going to go down that route for them, the enemies are also going to be able to use it. I find that, with some exceptions, knowing that they'll be on the receiving end of whatever crackpot maneuver they've come up with as well helps them reconsider.
That the foes can and will use the same tricks as the PCs (assuming all else is equal) is a given.
Again, I like a good action scene, but only watching those parts of the movie, how do you get the context for what's going on? How do you know who you're fighting and why in the game?
Context? What's that?

"There's six Ogres approaching, here's their positions. What do you do?" is all this player needs. Other people can worry about the whys and wherefores.
My brother was running a game where they were trying to deal with a possessed dragon. The party had decided to focus on stopping the possession. The PC that tunes out non-combat stuff, just goes in full blast on the dragon.
Yep - seen that many a time, have I. And as DM, I love it for the sheer chaos and entertainment value.
 

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 4e with the Group Advantage presented in Up In Arms has an interesting mechanic.

A shared pool of points are generated by successful actions by any player. It means every player has a potential success by the other players.

Outnumbering and tactics also has an important impact on combat so other players positioning and decisions can also affect yourself in major ways.

Lastly the act of combat is in itself pretty suspenseful given that an attack can result in the death of the person attacking (worst case) or the instant death of the target (best case) or seriously debuff an opponent which can create opportunities to you.

In short WFRP 4e combat is just more interesting to watch. I think D&D could learn a lot from the system.
 

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