D&D 5E Combat as war, sport, or ??

[TwoSix]

Fundamentally, "we confront the cultists in their lair for a mano a mano final battle" and "we bar the doors to the cultists' lair and then burn it down, killing them" are two very different types of fiction. Which one you enjoy more is purely a matter of preference.

Rules are created for the players to enjoy learning and engaging with. If combat is meant to be a quick resolution step so the players can get back to the narration, then the combat rules should be simple and straightforward. If combat is meant to be savored, then the combat rules should be more detailed.

 

[payn]

okay, so I currently have no game I DM but I have the following games readyish...

SpellJammer Funny (D&D 5e)
Spelljammer Serius (ish) (D&D 5e)
Ravenloft take 2 (D&D playtest)
Birthright (D&D 5e)
In the Army (D&D TBD)
Knights of the realm (Mid5e)
Vampire Sin's of the Childer (V20)
1970's super heroes (TORG)
Post Modern Magic (M20)

how does the system catagorize them?

Not sure, there is a personal use and preference to that decision. I am not familiar with many of these systems. For 5E, I think it can go either way, maybe leans a bit strategy, but the GM and players will have a lot to do with that.

Games like 4E and PF2 specifically, lean hard into tactics. So much so, I find it hard to back out of that playstyle. YMMV.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Fundamentally, "we confront the cultists in their lair for a mano a mano final battle" and "we bar the doors to the cultists' lair and then burn it down, killing them" are two very different types of fiction. Which one you enjoy more is purely a matter of preference.

yes but again... what stops sport from locking them in (if they are dumb enough to not have a second way out) and what is to stop the war from buffifng and fighting... and since both can happen in the same campaign how do you lable them?

 

[TwoSix]

yes but again... what stops sport from locking them in (if they are dumb enough to not have a second way out) and what is to stop the war from buffifng and fighting... and since both can happen in the same campaign how do you lable them?

Nothing, really. I'd just say if you're running a game with a detailed combat rules set (say, 3e or 4e) to do FKR style play, or a simple combat rules set (like an OD&D or Knave or Into the Odd) to run long, detailed epic combat, you're really not utilizing the rules set to the best of its ability. There's nothing WRONG with it, it's more like using your big rig to drive down the street to get coffee; it's just inefficient.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Nothing, really. I'd just say if you're running a game with a detailed combat rules set (say, 3e or 4e) to do FKR style play, or a simple combat rules set (like an OD&D or Knave or Into the Odd) to run long, detailed epic combat, you're really not utilizing the rules set to the best of its ability. There's nothing WRONG with it, it's more like using your big rig to drive down the street to get coffee; it's just inefficient.

again I still think it is a spectrum and where I am sure somewhere there is a game that is 99% war or sport and 1% the other... I doubt it is more then a fraction of a % of games... most games fall somewhere between the two and as such hard lables don't work

 

[TwoSix]

again I still think it is a spectrum and where I am sure somewhere there is a game that is 99% war or sport and 1% the other... I doubt it is more then a fraction of a % of games... most games fall somewhere between the two and as such hard lables don't work

Hard labels rarely work in anything. I can label pretty much anything I consume either "food" or "drink"; the fact that soup exists doesn't make those labels meaningless.

 

[Scribe]

Combat is a Puzzle.

I like this answer most.

A puzzle can be easy, or challenging.
A puzzle can be a solo effort, or group.
A puzzle is intended to be completed.

5e as provided, intends for combat to be successfully resolved by the players, like a puzzle.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Hard labels rarely work in anything. I can label pretty much anything I consume either "food" or "drink"; the fact that soup exists doesn't make those labels meaningless.

except if you describe soup as food and the guy next to you describes soup as drink the lalel HAS become meaningless

 

[TwoSix]

except if you describe soup as food and the guy next to you describes soup as drink the lalel HAS become meaningless

Categories don't have to have clear-cut definitions without exception to have utility.

If I say "we're having sandwiches for lunch", the old "is a hot dog a sandwich" question doesn't mean my statement suddenly lacks any descriptive quality.

 

[tetrasodium]

Categories don't have to have clear-cut definitions without exception to have utility.

If I say "we're having sandwiches for lunch", the old "is a hot dog a sandwich" question doesn't mean my statement suddenly lacks any descriptive quality.

They don't always have clear cut definitions but at a certain point something has moved so far from one end of the spectrum in so many ways that it can't claim to have enough compatible or common points with the distant end to count. That's the problem with 5e's combat, it leans so hard into combat as sport that it runs right past it into an entirely new realm of something like combat as filler or whatever.