Combat issues: slayer + at-will magic missile.

[LostSoul]

Shocking Grasp: Way better than any melee weapon for a wizard.

This makes me have an idea for a mad overlord:

He trains (or better, captures) wizards to use as human batteries, like in The Matrix. He uses them to power some kind of electrical grid.

A small domed town with all sorts of modern conveniences would be an interesting place for the PCs to travel to - I'm thinking something like '50s sci-fi. A town called "Haven" deep in evil-humanoid controlled territory protected by lightning cannons. The PCs might stumble across it while low on resources.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

For those that at least partially agree with BT (more people seem to agree on the fighter than on the wizard), would you mind saying why this is a flaw? So far, I don't see that anyone in this thread has done that. It certainly isn't self-evident, at least to me - I'm fine with both of these on paper, at least enough to be willing to see how they play out.

The MM does not bother me at all.

The auto damage on a miss (from the reaper ability of the Slayer theme) however is something I really don't like. I don't like that a failure on an "attack/to hit" can kill things. I have no idea how to mentally justify this (if you have a way, please feel free to give me some ideas). It is not that it is over-powered (it isn't) it is just that a fighting style that always makes your attacks "close calls" shouldn't be killing things. Close calls by definition don't kill. I really don't like this disconnect between the mechanic (potentially deadly damage) and the "flavour": that is missing/close call. I'm sure this is easy enough to fix by tweaking the mechanic to suit the flavour (the hp loss is ignored if it would make the enemy bloodied or worse perhaps).

I suppose in general, if you are going to have a particular idea for an action, please make sure that the mechanic properly supports it.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[IronWolf]

The MM does not bother me at all.

I am in the middle of the road on this one. I need to see it in play to get a better feel for it.

The auto damage on a miss (from the reaper ability of the Slayer theme) however is something I really don't like. I don't like that a failure on an "attack/to hit" can kill things. I have no idea how to mentally justify this (if you have a way, please feel free to give me some ideas).

Yeah - I can't see myself liking the way this plays out. Even worse as a player, if I am fighting these kobolds, how boring is it to know that even on a miss I am going to kill it. So for "x" number of rounds I don't even have to roll the dice.

 

[WheresMyD20]

If "having a torch" is the answer to a challenge, that's not really a challenge.

The dark nature of dungeons is one of the difficulties of that environment. Torches require a free hand to hold and can be blown out by a gust of wind. The wizard's light cantrip makes darkness a non-issue.

It's like having an automatic "warmth" ability in arctic areas or "cooling" ability in the desert. It negates some of what makes the environment difficult.

End of the world issue? No... but it does take away some of what makes low level dungeon crawling challenging. Not everyone likes that sort of thing, but some do.

Bolded part critical. Wizards should not generally be good at using melee weapons.

Yup. They shouldn't be good in melee, period. Shocking grasp is way too good. The damage is comparable to a longsword. If the target is in metal armor, the cantrip is better than a longsword.

If an at-will magic attack is needed for flavor (personally I don't think it is, but a significant number of people seem to like it), I think it should be on par with a dagger or quarterstaff.

No so in 4E, unlikely to be so in 5E. "Many" traps can be overcome with a hand that can apply a very small amount of pressure?

Mage Hand lets a character open doors, chests, etc. from a distance without touching the object. Poisoned needles, scything blades, and other common chest and door traps can be avoided.

Mage Hand can lift 10 lbs and manipulate small objects. 10 lbs. of force is a pretty good shove. Applying that 10 lbs. of force to a small area (since it can be used to manipulate small objects), say 1 square inch, an that's a strong poke.

Mage Hand can't overcome every trap, but it can overcome a lot of them.

Like a fighter "spamming" a grab or grapple, it's trading an action for an action. No biggie.

Except that the Ray of Frost has no save and can be used safely from range. If you have more than one wizard in the party (or more than one character with at least one level in wizard) they can each spam Ray of Frost each round. As soon as one ray hits, the party is free to pelt the monster with ranged attacks for the rest of the round. Basically, the monster is stun-locked. If it doesn't have a ranged attack handy, it will certainly die.

If the multi-classing rules are anything like the 3e multiclass rules, I can see a lot of characters, especially rogues, taking one level in wizard just for the cantrips.

 

[Lanefan]

The dark nature of dungeons is one of the difficulties of that environment. Torches require a free hand to hold and can be blown out by a gust of wind.

Or quenched by a fall into water, or a flood. And they burn out, which can be a significant inconvenience if you haven't finished exploring the dungeon yet.

If the multi-classing rules are anything like the 3e multiclass rules, I can see a lot of characters, especially rogues, taking one level in wizard just for the cantrips.

Some class abilities should be restricted to single-class characters, just to discourage this sort of nonsense. At-will cantrips would be an obvious example - only single-class wizards get them. Dabblers don't.

Lanefan

 

[mach1.9pants]

Edit: although at the moment anyone can pick up 2 cantrips with the right background

The wizard is not good in melee due to his AC and HP, even if he does better than a fighter with a sword. Still I can see your point.
I think a lot of the auto kill of kobolds would be helped by them just having random ish HP. If they had 1d4+1 HP then it would be different by a long shot. I know rolling and tracking monster HP can be a pain but in the scenario I would have it as an option. Especially because if the first hit didn't reduce to 0 the next hit would no matter the damage.

 

[ArmoredSaint]

T
• The wizard kitespams magic missile and kills a kobold every round no matter what.

What on Earth does "kitespam" mean? Is this another MMORPG term?

 

[mach1.9pants]

Yeah I get the idea but was wondering too!

 

[Invisible Stalker]

What on Earth does "kitespam" mean? Is this another MMORPG term?

How much wind does it take for the kite to carry a can of Spam up in the air?

 

[Fifth Element]

The dark nature of dungeons is one of the difficulties of that environment. Torches require a free hand to hold and can be blown out by a gust of wind. The wizard's light cantrip makes darkness a non-issue.

Free hand is nothing - get the wizard to carry it. If you're worried about breezes, replace torch with hooded lantern.

Yup. They shouldn't be good in melee, period. Shocking grasp is way too good. The damage is comparable to a longsword. If the target is in metal armor, the cantrip is better than a longsword.

And requires the wizard to be in melee, which is not where you want him. Good damage? Sure. Squished wizard? Definite possibility. That's the tradeoff.

Except that the Ray of Frost has no save and can be used safely from range.

And requires an attack roll, of course.

If you have more than one wizard in the party (or more than one character with at least one level in wizard) they can each spam Ray of Frost each round. As soon as one ray hits, the party is free to pelt the monster with ranged attacks for the rest of the round. Basically, the monster is stun-locked. If it doesn't have a ranged attack handy, it will certainly die.

The rest of the party is free to pelt the monster with ranged attacks anyway, if they're all staying out of range to let the wizard try and stun it. The monster's boned anyway if the party has the room for such a tactic.

If the multi-classing rules are anything like the 3e multiclass rules, I can see a lot of characters, especially rogues, taking one level in wizard just for the cantrips.

I'd say we should probably wait until we see the rules before we decide there's a problem with them. Multiclassing has been different in each of the last three editions of the game. We have no way of knowing what they look like right now.

What on Earth does "kitespam" mean? Is this another MMORPG term?

A quick websearch says yes. It apparently means attacking from range and continually backing away from the enemy, so that you're leading them around like a kite.