Combat Tactics for Demons:

[Lordnightshade]

K guys, this thread ISN'T an Alignment debate... I just want Tactics...

Things work the way they do in my multiverse because I'm the one running it! If I want my Demons to cooperate to create a challenge for my high level group then they shall... I have my reasons. So...........

FOCUS...

Tactics... that’s what it’s all about!

 

[Lord Ben]

Sorry.

Any particular CR you have in mind, or just general demon tactics?

 

[trimeulose]

I think I've been misunderstood here. Probably with good reason. The point I was trying to make is that demons live in the abyss. The abyss is known for its survival of the fittest atmosphere, and for its backstabbing and its "chaotic nature." Demons in my opinion can work together, but if they do it will be because of brute str rather than a shrude (sp) mind or sound battle tactics. For the major part demons will only listen to a superior if they know the superior is well VASTLY superior, and the leaders aren't much better.

The most powerful demons have become powerful be being execellent combatants not excellent leaders, therefore if they are in the position to lead they will have only a basic knowledge of tactics and ordering soldiers. Even if they do there is a lesser chance that their subordinates will follow the orders.

They might have a good sound strategy, and they might enforce it for a SHORT while, but in the end it will probably come down to chaos intervening. The demons will force the enemy into 1on1 fighting and and will try to get them to use lunge attacks. Or they might use other enemies as cover.

Most Experience Players will note the war that has been going on with the abyss and hell for an unrecordable amount of time. How would hell be able to survive in a war against a superior outsider. Compare any of the Demons to their Devil counter-parts. The Demons are superior in almost every way. Devils have the tactical minds and the ability to keep order on the battle field. Demons are simply better fighters. End result Stalemate.

My suggestion was simply to provide an example of how demons COULD work together.

 

[Lordnightshade]

No problem Lord Ben,

My group is APL 14 but several of them are 17th or now maybe even 18th level... (ELH came out just in time I think!!)

However, that's not really the most important thing, really what I'm looking for is how to best play any given Demon in combat either alone or with it's friends. What tactics it can use and be the most effective.

Also if you can break things down into a round by round list then that helps a great deal!

Thank you!

 

[Lordnightshade]

If you are a player in my game please read no more of this thread:

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I understood what you were getting at trimeulose, and I agree, in most cases what you are saying is correct. However, there are some demons in the abyss that are not very strong in combat. The main one I am thinking of is the Succubus, now when you take a succubus who has attained a very powerful status (to the point she is nearly ruling an abyssal layer) you have to think that she got there through cunning and deviousness and not her brute strength.

A succubus like this would be so desirable that she would have scores of lesser demons, even Balor’s at her beck and call… Out of these mewling hoards of demons vying for an ounce of her attention she would choose the most intelligent and cooperative among them. These she would keep close to her to protect her from Devil assassins and the rare group of meddlesome adventurers. These Demons would be the elite, and would perhaps act more like Devils in their combat tactics.

But trimeulose, you are correct, the average Blood War Demon trooper wants nothing more than to survive at any cost…. Most Demon’s don’t want to fight in that war. They are forced into it by their friendly neighborhood recruitment officer the Molydeus. This is why in the blood war; you have masses of demons who fight with no tactics stalemated with the much fewer in number organized and disciplined devils.

 

[Lord Ben]

They follow others out of respect, fear, because it's the smart thing to do, they get paid, etc. LE would follow out of some sense of social obligation and because each has their place in society.

 

[Lord Ben]

Tactics? Hezrou could do blasphemy, blasphemy, etc every round. That would be cheesy though.

Bebiliths can cast web to try to limit the mobility of PC's, at best they'll make it out of the web in peicemeal, and the ones in the center of the web should be the spellcasters. That means the party is sort of divided up with full cover between them probably, ample opportunities to divide an conquer.

Hezrous can cast deeper darkness, and they have +22 listen with the blindfight feat. 25% chance of missing and taking half damage compared to the PC's with a full 50% chance of missing and only doing half damage is nasty. Plus some might fail and be retching the whole time, their buddies will not know where they are.

Combine the two and you have quite the battle. The wizard and cleric (who were in back) struggle to emerge from the web only to find that their fighter has been facing the Bebilith and Hezrou single-handedly for a few rounds. They don't see this though because of the darkness. Did they prepare true-seeing? If they did then the Hezrou can use dispel good to automatically dispel it.

If you start losing teleport away to maybe get healing from a friendly cleric and teleport back into the fray to keep going. Having a retreiver along helps loads for finding your way back into combat. Planar Binding 8 Formian Wokers will give you a cure serious wounds every round. Best done away from battle, but I suppose they could be binded to be the "healer" of the demons for quite a while. Seal them off in a well-guarded area and teleport there when wounded. 2 minutes later come back again for more! You won't run out of spells nearly as quickly as the PC's will. Buy some granite statues from humans, use them as payment for when you do services for them. Keep them in a store room and when in an emergency use your animate object (at will) on them to create some quick disposable creatures to aid you. You can teleport at will with 50lbs of objects. Bring along a small statue of about 13 cubit feet or 50lbs, when almost in battle animate it for some help. Have it grapple the wizard.

Breaking it up into rounds is hard, no plan survives contact with the enemy. Divinde and conquer, use your strengths.

 

[Lordnightshade]

bump

 

[James McMurray]

For the Nalfeshnee, you may want to move Feeblemind to the top, as it does very little good to slow or otherwise hinder your foes if the wizard, sorcerer, or cleric is blasting you, buffing them, or healig them.