Combined Magic Items - cost?

[Mercurius]

Hi all,
I'm not sure if there is an official ruling on this or if this counts as a house rule. What I'm trying to figure out is how to combine magic items and the resulting level and GP cost. For instance, what would you say the cost should be for paired vicious weapons? A +2 paired weapon is considered 8th level (3,400 GP), while a +2 vicious weapon is 7th level (2,600 GP). What would the level and cost be for a +2 paired vicious weapon? I'm thinking one or two levels higher than the highest of the two. Or how about this general rule of thumb, depending upon the difference between the two combined qualities:

If the magic qualities are...

...of the same level (e.g. 8th and 8th level), then the combined item is three levels higher (e.g. 11th level).
...one level difference (e.g. 7th and 8th level), then the combined item is two levels higher (e.g. 10th level).
...two levels difference or more (e.g. 6th or lower and 8th level), then the combined item is one level higher (e.g. 9th level).

What do you think? Is that about right or is it too mild or harsh in terms of cost?

 

[keterys]

You can't use a formula. You have to decide on a case by case basis, depending on what is balanced for the final product.

Sorry.

I will say.. your current system has a basic flaw: 2 2nd level weapons combine to a 5th, while a 2nd and a 4th combine to a 5th

Also, you're better off for (weapons/armor/neck) thinking of the delta from the base plus.. ie, Vicious is N+1, Radiant is N+4.

 

[Mercurius]

OK, thanks, that actually helps. By "delta of the base," I assume you mean the number over the base value?

What might work is something like:

The combined item level = the highest level + the delta from the base of the lower level item.

In the example I have above, that of a paired vicious +2 weapon, you start with the paired +2 weapon as the base, as that is the higher of the two - 8th - and then you add the delta of the base of the lower, which is 1, so you get a 9th level item.

I suppose you could add another level simply by virtue of it being a combined item, but maybe that is too much. So you'd get:

+2 weapon - 6th level
+2 vicious weapon - 7th level
+2 paired weapon - 8th level
+2 paired vicious weapon - 9th or 10th, depending upon which variant is used

You could even combine three or more magic items, adding whatever the differences over the base of the lower level items. This could offer intriguing possibilities for further enchanting magic items over time, a variant on legacy items. Rather than simply bringing your same old +2 weapon in to increase the bonus, you could add various qualities, in effect creating what could become an artifact by epic level.

 

[chitzk0i]

I would say that the combination would always be a rare item that's level 5, 10, 15, etc. For two N+2 items, you might want to add in an encounter or daily power to bring it up to par, but it should still be rare.

 

[Mercurius]

That's not a bad idea chitzk0i, but it doesn't easily allow for the "make your own artifact" element I'd like to include. I think it also depends upon the assumptions of the campaign world in terms of magic, how easy it is to find a mage to enchant an item, etc. If you even in a small "magic item industry" then you have wizards in large cities that you can bring your items to to increase their potency.

In my campaign world magic isn't super rare or super common - somewhere in between. The main campaign city is an adventurer's haven on the edge of various wilderlands, which means there is a thriving market for rare items, both magical and mundane, as adventuring parties bring in their loot and sell it. There are also ye olde magic shoppes run by retired wizards who up the enchantments on items.

We've taken the approach that, rather than wait for a higher level item of your preferred type, the PCs can take their old items into these shops and pay the owners to up the enchantment.

 

[chitzk0i]

No, I mean the item category "Rare". The magic item system of 4e expressly forbids double enchanting the same item, but if you work with the players to come up with specific exceptions and limit them to one per PC, it would be fine.

Although it might be fun to come up with an 'item miscability table' that could yield a doubly enhanced item, but could drain away some of the magic.

 

[AntiStateQuixote]

An alternative:

The cost of the "combined" item equals the cost of each item summed as if they were each one level higher than they actually are.

Example:

Level 1 item (360 gp) and Level 3 item (680 gp) costs the same as a level 2 item (520 gp) and a level 4 item (840 gp).

This appears to be the formula followed for "slotless" items like Divine Boon and Glory Boon items. There are some of these items that exactly duplicate regular magic items, but they are one level higher than the item they duplicate.

By adding the extra level twice you're definitely keeping with the "math" followed for the slotless items, and you may actually be going above that math, but it shouldn't be too unbalanced.

 

[Mengu]

So, how much for a +3 vanguard frost weapon?

 

[AntiStateQuixote]

+3 vanguard weapon level 13 upped to level 14 (21,000 gp)
+3 frost weapon level 13 upped to level 14 (21,000 gp)

42,000 gp which is more than a level 15 (25,000), but a bit less than a level 16 (45,000).

 

[BobTheNob]

The good thing about 4e (or any p&p rpg) is that its your game. Yours to do with as you will.

That said...TREAD CAREFULLY!

The great restricting point for equipment, or what stops equipment from breaking the game, is not the cost of it : its the fact that you cant have multiples. Yes, I can afford 2 suits or armor with different properties, no I cant wear them both at once.

There is design in the items there are and intention in their balance. You start allowing multiple effects per "slot" you are walking a dangerous path. Sure, its attractive to players (who would want a Jagged Frost Black iron sword of ultimate death!?), but if you set a precedent with this, it could end up in a dark place for your game.

The fact is, game designers only intended a certain level of output from gear, and from experience, aquisition of gear and gold is a DODDLE (at least going by prescribed standards in the DM's guide)

Personally, as a DM, this just isnt something I would ever toy with, and would NEVER allow players to have autonomy over (that said, each of my players got a custom designed epic item going into epic levels...but I desgined those items, not the players).

But if you can make it work, more power to you.