Comfort withcross gender characters based on your gender

Comfort with cross gender characters based on your gender

  • I am male and am uncomfortable with cross gender characters

    Votes: 46 11.8%
  • I am male and am indifferent to cross gender characters

    Votes: 108 27.8%
  • I am male and am comfortable with cross gender characters

    Votes: 214 55.0%
  • I am female and am uncomfortable with cross gender characters

    Votes: 2 0.5%
  • I am female and am indifferent to cross gender characters

    Votes: 2 0.5%
  • I am female and am comfortable with cross gender characters

    Votes: 17 4.4%

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Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Question for those who are voting "uncomfortable with cross-gender characters": do you mean uncomfortable with playing one yourself or uncomfortable with anyone at the table playing one?

It's a big difference: with the former you're just acting on your own preference and not interfering with what others do while with the latter you're telling other people what they're allowed to play.

One of these is cool. The other, not so much.
 

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Lylandra

Adventurer
Question for those who are voting "uncomfortable with cross-gender characters": do you mean uncomfortable with playing one yourself or uncomfortable with anyone at the table playing one?

It's a big difference: with the former you're just acting on your own preference and not interfering with what others do while with the latter you're telling other people what they're allowed to play.

One of these is cool. The other, not so much.

I agree, but I think there could be many burnt kids in this room. Like, players who have seen very bad examples of cross-gender character play and who don't want any of this in their game.

Thing is that cross-gender play isn't the reason for such obnoxious play, but rather too little communication on what is considered appropriate. Hence my "If you don't wish to portray your cross-gender character like an actual person, then don't play one" statement. Because I'm a woman and I'm really uncomfortable when someone at the table plays my gender as a sexy lamp and as wish-fulfilment only. I can only guess the same applies to queer people and queer characters.

Note: I'm talking about "serious campaigns". Satire or comic relief play is a wholly different animal as long as everyone is on board.
 

Riley37

First Post
As far as the example though, well, that's a bit trickier since I'm not a big fan of the idea that classes actually exist in the game world, so, "Are you a fighter or a ranger" isn't really the important question, is it?

This comes back to the question of what is and isn't salient. As I understand the PHB, people in the Forgotten Realms know what classes are, and if you ask the gate guard or an innkeeper "are there any clerics in this city?" they'll understand the question, including the distinction between Acolyte (staff of a temple) and Cleric (can cast Cure Wounds). Any wizard knows that all other wizards, and some warlocks, have spell books. Paladins know that their Oath grants specific abilities, and they know that paladins who swear other Oaths have different abilities. If you want to play in a setting without classes as known categories, then IMO the 5E PHB is a tool poorly suited to that task.

OTOH, the fact that a character is more or less genderless is something that you'd think that 4 or 5 people in close, virtually every day contact with should pick up on. The fact that no one at the table actually realized this until a year into the campaign means that the player didn't do a very good job of portraying that character to the table.

As the person who played that character, I am biased towards disagreeing. I played Dexter as someone who *didn't care about gender*. Dexter cared about magic and music (as a Bard), knowledge (as a Sage and a Lore Bard), and defeating the cult of Tiamat. Dexter didn't have any interest in displaying masculinity; Dexter killed Tiamat's minions, ruthlessly and efficiently, without shouts of "Booyeah!", without post-combat fist-bumps. Dexter interacted with tavern staff by ordering food and drink, and asking about rumors, without any show-off "hey, watch me woo this wench". Dexter likewise didn't have any interest in displaying femininity. Dexter used Healing Word on comrades to get them back into the fight, and Lesser Restoration on sick NPCs out of generic genderless compassion, and didn't otherwise spend time nurturing anyone. The PCs, and their players, learned that Dexter was goal-oriented and mission-focussed; on the rare occasions of relaxation, Dexter was then all about music. I conveyed the character's interests *exactly* as intended.

If an NPC had ever taken a romantic interest in Dexter, then PCs (and thus players) at the table might have noticed Dexter's response; but the DM never played NPCs as having that level of personal agenda. Perhaps that's incomplete DMing. NPCs should notice PCs as "more than ordinary"; if someone asks the innkeeper "Who were your most interesting guests in the past year?", then the innkeeper's answer should include the PCs. Now and then, that high profile should provoke attraction. Then again, attraction would not necessarily (nor immediately) reveal what anatomy was under Dexter's clothing, not unless we ran a scene well past the point at which most tables would fade out or cut to commercial.

You mention Vaarsuvius from OOTS. V's sex is unknown. (Belkar has tried to settle the question, by examining V's genitals, when V was a lizard; to no avail.) V's *gender*, using the term socially rather than anatomically, is unambiguous. V talks - particularly, interrupts - like a man. V leaves V's children at home with V's spouse, following the default and norm for the father role in societies from Agricultural through Industrial ages. It's theoretically possible that Inkyrius sired the children and V bore the children, but V sure doesn't act like the one who nursed them.
 

Riley37

First Post
with the former you're just acting on your own preference and not interfering with what others do while with the latter you're telling other people what they're allowed to play.

If the DM says "You must play characters of your gender", then I'll take it or leave it. If the DM holds a Session Zero and a player says "I'd rather that we each play same-gender PCs" then I'm inclined to acquiesce to that player's request. (If the player instead says "No one pull any feminazi BS" then one of us is at the wrong table.)

Hence my "If you don't wish to portray your cross-gender character like an actual person, then don't play one" statement. Because I'm a woman and I'm really uncomfortable when someone at the table plays my gender as a sexy lamp and as wish-fulfilment only.

In this case, someone at the table has made a request (or a DM directive), AND backed that up with a principle, based on their previous experience. At which point, no way I'm gonna argue.

I've seen a man play a woman not as a sexy lamp, but as annoyingly flamboyant and non-pragmatic, speaking in a bouncy falsetto, and that rubbed me the wrong way. I dunno whether he would eventually have progressed to sexy lamp; that was nominally Session Zero, but the only part of Zero he understood was "this is the session in which we make characters who then meet each other"; he did not understand "this is when we hash out tone, themes, and boundaries". The DM didn't invite him back for Session One.
 

Bagpuss

Legend
Because I'm a woman and I'm really uncomfortable when someone at the table plays my gender as a sexy lamp and as wish-fulfilment only.

I dunno whether he would eventually have progressed to sexy lamp.

Can you define what you mean by "sexy lamp" in this case? As my understanding of the term means that the female character is just there for decoration, doesn't really add anything to the plot or advance it in a meaningful way.

I would have thought any PC is likely going to add something to the story, and react to what the GM provides.
 

dragoner

KosmicRPG.com
I voted:

I am male and am comfortable with cross gender characters

Usually ~50% of my characters are female.


I agree, but I think there could be many burnt kids in this room.

This is true, and from a different perspective, I played a Cleric, picked what I thought was a cool pic for her, and then the GM started having every NPC comment on her appearance, she wound up at a temple taking care of babies; and another player was a woman, I think both she and I started to question just what the hell was going on.

Tl;dr the game died, and could be filed under "sucky things GM's do", and while it's easy to blame it on gender, and forbid playing the opposite gender as insurance to insulate from that, I have found that bad GM's will find a way to make things un-fun anyways.
 

redrick

First Post
I'm male. Thinking back to characters played over the last six months, 3 were female, one was nonbinary and one was male. One of my favorite characters, who I only got to play once, was Esme, a retired cat burglar, who loved most in the world fabulous flowing skirts and stealing things for her grandchildren.

If a player couldn't be trusted to not play their PC as a sexist caricature, I would probably stop playing with that person.

When hosting games, I ask all players to indicate PC pronouns on their character tent. This way, nobody ever needs to behave stereotypically just to "remind" us of the character gender. Sometimes the only practical difference in gender for role-play will be the name and pronouns of the character, which is totally appropriate. The last thing I want to do is tell a player that they aren't playing their character "female enough".
 

D1Tremere

Adventurer
I'm seeing a lot of people talk about what makes THEM comfortable with regards to how OTHER people choose to play.
I can understand how someone playing a stereotype may make someone uncomfortable. I can understand how someone emphasizing their character's gender too much or too little could as well.
The thing to remember is that everyone plays what they play for a reason, THEIR reason. They may not see the situation in the same light as you, and they are under no compulsion to. GM's are (in my opinion) rules adjudicators and story tellers. The main job of the GM is to help players have fun. So long as a player's choices are allowing them to have fun (and not directly/intentionally infringing on the fun of others), then that is all that matters.
Using the gender issue as (potentially) an excuse to insist on a level of role commitment, acting ability, or originality from a player is fraught with problems.
 
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Eltab

Lord of the Hidden Layer
Another player in my group has a character with the Warlock perma-Disguise Self ability. The character has looked male or female based on what disguise we thought would help us get further along towards our objective. ('Boss lich of the dungeon' for max scoundrel-tricks.) Team Monster finally knocked out the character in a fight. We've had a female Drow arcane magic-user in our midst the whole time - who knew?
The character's "true" sex / gender were not important, so it didn't come up. And I'm not upset about any of it.
 

Eltab

Lord of the Hidden Layer
I haven't created any lesbian or transgendered characters because it's not something I feel I can portray accurately.
I'm pretty sure I could play a complete stereotype. But would anybody else enjoy playing with me (and that cardboard cutout*)? Very likely, not.

* on purpose, I did not say 'character'
 

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