Coming to a MM near you- FLAVOR!

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

This is a step in the right direction. Especially as they move from the monsters "everyone knows" such as orcs and dragons, there will be more of a need to explain what the various monsters are.

Of course, a lot will depend on quality: bad fluff is worse than no fluff at all, as it takes up space that could have been better used.



By that logic, 4e is an unmitigated failure, because it doesn't cater to me. WotC cannot design books just for you, or for me. They have to try to design the books that the majority of the customer base want. And if the majority of their feedback suggests that people want more fluff, then that's what they should do (or at least try).

And, frankly, the lack of fluff in the 4e MM is awful (IMO). Coupled with the amount of whitespace and the large font size, it is almost inexcusable - they had all that space available, and decided to waste it instead of providing (potentially new) DMs with information that they could use to bring life to their monsters? It's probably the biggest mistake they made in putting together 4e.

Whitespace is not waste. It exists to make the book more readable and more easy to use as reference material.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't want a few more "fluffy" things in it. But it doesn't have to mean sacrificing readability or usability at the table.

 

[S'mon]

I love the whitespace - I use it to note up-levelled and de-levelled stats of the monsters! That way they enter the permanent record, to be accessed again at will. Now whenever I need an 8th level gnoll Huntmaster, there he is! I don't like using a laptop at the game table, so this is great for me.

 

[S'mon]

I think there are some cases in the 4e MM where they included a second up-levelled or different-role version of an infrequently used monster just to fill up the single page; in those cases I'd usually prefer a paragraph of fluff.

 

[Derulbaskul]

I've seen complaints online about the encounter groups in the 1st MM. Not many, but I've seen a few.

If we get logically-designed encounter groups in the MM3 then the next step would be logically-designed encounter groups in WotC's adventures. Hmmm... I wonder if that will mean the adventures will soon stop sucking?

 

[Jhaelen]

The only thing I would like to see is # appearing, basically. How many goblins make up a goblin lair? I'm making these numbers up myself, based on some old school tables.

That's not something I miss.

What I miss is the climate/habitat line. It's what I've been using in the past to create encounter groups.

I'm cautiously optimistic about the changes in MM3, though. I wonder if the explanations will be similar to the the ones accompanying the short encounter groups in the 'Denizens of XXX' sections of the 'Underdark' book?

 

[delericho]

Whitespace is not waste. It exists to make the book more readable and more easy to use as reference material.

Unless it fails in this task, in which case it is a waste. Much of the whitespace in the 4e MM is a waste. Again, IMO.

 

[avin]

I have posted about this last week already, by Amazon's product description, so this is not news for me.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/5061428-post294.html

4th edition MMs are horrible for me. In former editions I spend days and days reading, watching images and getting inspired from MMs.

Prior to that I had decided I would pass MM3. What's the point of another shallow stat block game if I can make my own monsters on Monster Builder? Now, fluffed, it's already preordered.

Too bay for guys who love stat blocks but I'm glad Wizards read the feedback and is aware most DMs want more than combat strategies for his antagonists.

 

[avin]

Whitespace is not waste. It exists to make the book more readable and more easy to use as reference material.

In fact, whitespace increases legibility by contrasting to the block of words: black to white. Correct. Works great.

But if you have another visual element such as images, they can also work as contrast element and improve legibility.

There's another ways other than blank spaces to do that trick.

In my opinion 4E MMs exagerattes on using white space, giving this impression of "omg blank spaces". If was used properly the trick would pass unnoticed.

I'd suggest reading Robin Willians (the writer) "The Non-Designers Design Book", a very easy and interesting reading

 

[Bluenose]

I'll make two predictions. When it comes out, some people who've will find a creature that's been in a previous edition, discover that the fluff has been changed, and complain about this ruining it's flavour. Other people will find a creature that hasn't been changed from previous editions at all and complain about this being a waste of space.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I don't think this was done to appease people who don't play the game.

I mean, one of the survey questions was "Which editions do you play?" right? Like the "Which books do you own?" questions, they help get feedback from the actual audience.

WotC, I don't think, NEEDS to appease people who don't play the game. Unless they're in far worse financial trouble than I would assume from having the #1 RPG in the world, the people who don't play 4e aren't a potential audience for the next few years at least. Maybe they'll buy Gamma World or the Ravenloft game, but they ain't tryin' to sell 'em the MM3 or the Dark Sun campaign.

What I think the idea is, is to add more utility to the MM's.

Because flavor is useful. Fluff is not empty. Encounter groups that make sense make the game a better play experience for many DMs. Books built with traps and hazards and NPC's and allies give DM's an array of threats to use, not just monsters to kill. For DM's who do more than just hurl combat after combat at the party (not that there's anything inherently wrong with that, it is just one style), information aside from combat information is key and important, and they shouldn't have to buy a "big book of other information" in order to have it. It should be part of the monster.

I think I would only be disappointed in the fluff if it was like a lot of 4e fluff is already. "The VerbNoun NounVerber lurks in dungeons and likes to kill adventurers because it is angry/hungry/evil/bored/insane/constipated. It likes to hang out with NounVerb WildShadowWarDarknesses, because they're BFF's." If the team pays attention to the flavor, I am confident that we'll get better than that. It's more likely to me that the current 4e monster fluff is more the result of "no effort" than "no talent," since they clearly have some talented folks over there, whose attentions weren't really directed at "come up with a great reason for DM's to use this monster, and provide them everything they need to use it."