D&D (2024) Command is the Perfect Encapsulation of Everything I Don't Like About 5.5e

[Belen]

But some of the examples are making the same assumptions, that the caster decides how to implement the command not the target. If you follow that philosophy what the DM did was par for the course.

Except it violates the actual rules. It is not a philosophy, you cannot force the affected person to harm themselves. I am sure that the DM can make that ruling but I go back to what I said about how to handle such a person.

I think it is clear that the affected player or NPC should decide how to interpret the command. Period.

 

[Micah Sweet]

They won't do it because the old guard does not like being told what to do.

That is the crux of the issue.

You have different demographics and constituencies in your customer base and half of them want something and the other half want to direct opposite of it.

The old guard is hardly half. They should jettison them and focus on the demographic they actually want rather than limply try to cater to people who aren't happy with their offering anyway.

"They are the future, Charles, not us. We no longer matter".

I just watched X-Men again.

 

[Belen]

Because no one tells them is a bad idea until they do it enough and realize it's a bad idea.

Despite what people say the vast majority o visible f DM advice for many decades was to not help people or to tell them to "run the game exactly how I do".

DM advice only recently became majority friendly when you get folk became the main content creators and advice givers.

Nope. This is not remotely the case.

You can go back several decades on ENWorld and find people giving good, honest advice. Of course, there are also bad actors but that happens now too.

The DM advice I have received has always been majority friendly.

I am not sure if it is intentional, but it seems that you really detest older players and games.

 

[mamba]

The old guard is hardly half. They should jettison them and focus on the demographic they actually want rather than limply try to cater to people who aren't happy with their offering anyway.

so you want them to sever ties with you more actively?

 

[Micah Sweet]

so you want them to sever ties with you more actively?

Yeah, kinda. A clean break so they can definitively make a game I don't want for the clear majority that do.

 

[Oofta]

Except it violates the actual rules. It is not a philosophy, you cannot force the affected person to harm themselves. I am sure that the DM can make that ruling but I go back to what I said about how to handle such a person.

I think it is clear that the affected player or NPC should decide how to interpret the command. Period.

It wasn't "immediate" harm. It takes a while to drown.

 

[Minigiant]

Nope. This is not remotely the case.

You can go back several decades on ENWorld and find people giving good, honest advice. Of course, there are also bad actors but that happens now too.

The DM advice I have received has always been majority friendly.

I am not sure if it is intentional, but it seems that you really detest older players and games.

Places like ENworld IME ran younger and I found it more helpful than many places.

I mean. ENworld didn't outright shun 4e outright and badmouth 5e.

Edit: I mean even Gygax himself had a "You can do whatever you want, just maintain control. But if you don't do it my way you'll probably screw up" mentality. But you know he was trying to sell his books for most of those decades.

 

[Lanefan]

Confess/Recant would be useless in a court of law. Everyone would see you cast the spell (unless you're a sorcerer) and know the target is under coercion. I guess if it's a corrupt court, that's fine but you weren't exactly getting a fair trial in the first place.

Drink is just breathe toxic gas but in liquid form. If the target suspects the drink is poisoned, they refuse. (And if they don't know, I seriously question your alignment).

Spit and salute again is easily dismissed because SOMEONE CASTS A SPELL RIGHT THERE to make them do it. The offended party would be more angry at the person saying the command than the person doing the forced action.

Would they see you cast the spell, though? I mean, as far as I know there's no M or S component; you just say the one-word command to the target. In a court of law it could just come across as heckling; in a ballroom it could just be an odd bit of conversation.

It probably wouldn't be until-unless the target did something unusual in reaction that anyone would realize there might be some magic involved, by which time it's too late as the caster slips away into the crowd...

 

[Lanefan]

So because they clarified what the command spell does the game is a sad, lifeless drudgery. There's no creativity or initiative without exploits and without looking for ways to use a spell in a way not intended. Clarifying what a first level spell can do (while also improving it because by no longer requiring the target understanding the word is truly soul crushing. The level of exaggeration and hyperbole is just silly.

This thread is making a huge issue out of an incredibly minor change that clarifies the intent of the spell.

The thread is also serving to point out that this change is one more step down a slippery slope the designers have had us on for decades, where spells and effects that were once open-ended are continually being nerfed and-or codified into smaller and smaller boxes. Look at illusions in 1e, then go through the editions to see how they've been progressively nerfed and codified down to what exists today. Ditto Wish (and similar spells; do Limited Wish and Alter Reality even exist any more?).

What 5.5e wants to do to Command is merely a minor example of a much bigger and long-standing issue. I'm glad to see it's getting some pushback at last.

 

[Oofta]

The thread is also serving to point out that this change is one more step down a slippery slope the designers have had us on for decades, where spells and effects that were once open-ended are continually being nerfed and-or codified into smaller and smaller boxes. Look at illusions in 1e, then go through the editions to see how they've been progressively nerfed and codified down to what exists today. Ditto Wish (and similar spells; do Limited Wish and Alter Reality even exist any more?).

What 5.5e wants to do to Command is merely a minor example of a much bigger and long-standing issue. I'm glad to see it's getting some pushback at last.

Meh. I don't really believe in "slippery slopes". The game can't be for everyone, but this change just clarifies what, to me, is the obvious intent.