D&D (2024) Command is the Perfect Encapsulation of Everything I Don't Like About 5.5e

[Minigiant]

Here is the issue.

There should be a greater command spell.

Command: restricted commands as level one spell.

Greater Command: unrestricted commands as level 5 spell.

The issue isn't "ruling over rules.". The issue is that if you decide that you want to have a minimal amount of splat books then when you balance the original core rules you're going to eventually cut out much of the flavor.

 

[mellored]

I agree with OP. The old Command was IMO how a spell should be; some listed mechanical effects but also flavor that allowed you to freely play with the idea of the spell. I much prefer that as opposed to just mechanical effects.

It would be better for the game overall if spells relied just a bit more on user interpretation. IMO, that's what makes magic cool -- how we interpret it.

Would you do the same for weapon attacks?

 

[mellored]

Here is the issue.

There should be a greater command spell.

Command: restricted commands as level one spell.

Greater Command: unrestricted commands as level 5 spell.

How about if it was level 2 spell and you could use 25 words?

Just a suggestion

 

[MarkB]

I agree with OP. The old Command was IMO how a spell should be; some listed mechanical effects but also flavor that allowed you to freely play with the idea of the spell. I much prefer that as opposed to just mechanical effects.

It would be better for the game overall if spells relied just a bit more on user interpretation. IMO, that's what makes magic cool -- how we interpret it.

Maybe houserule it to split the difference. The standard Commands work on anyone, they're compulsions you can push into their minds. But you can give different Commands if the target can understand you.

 

[Hussar]

I agree with OP. The old Command was IMO how a spell should be; some listed mechanical effects but also flavor that allowed you to freely play with the idea of the spell. I much prefer that as opposed to just mechanical effects.

It would be better for the game overall if spells relied just a bit more on user interpretation. IMO, that's what makes magic cool -- how we interpret it.

Urg! Poorly written spell descriptions with vague interpretations are the thing I hate the most about D&D. To the point in my current campaign, I've flat out banned all full caster classes. I'm just sick to death of dealing with it. No thanks.

 

[Oofta]

I've had DMs that abused command. For example a DM that hated players wearing heavy armor was running a game on a ship (this was an AL equivalent game, not a sailing campaign). He had an NPC command my PC to jump and then told me that it was obvious that I should jump off the side of the ship. Instead of ... I don't know ... jump straight up, jump onto some other part of the ship, jump into his arms ... pretty much anything else. Nope, I had to jump off the side of the ship where of course I sunk like a rock.

So I don't have a problem with clear limitations and results for a first level spell. A lot of people avoid it because it's so vague.

 

[Minigiant]

How about if it was level 2 spell and you could use 25 words?

Just a suggestion

Suggestion is the arcane version.

How Minigiant would do it.

Divine
Command
Demand (language dependent, lasts multiple turns)
Greater Command (command restrictions removed)
Greater Demand (increase targets)

Arcane
Suggestion
Mass Suggestion (increases targets)

Primal
Command Beasts (only for beasts, multiple targets)
Command Plants (only for plants, multiple targets)

 

[TiQuinn]

OK. I think Command was just too versatile for its level, and glad it was toned down to some preset commands. After all what does repent mean by the spell?

Having learned the game during the 2e era, Command’s always been up to the DM to adjudicate and if the command is vague, it could mean unexpected results.

 

[TiQuinn]

Nobody ever tried to come up with another verb? Ever? Discussing D&D online makes me realize that other people play D&D very VERY differently from each other. Which is probably the source of a lot of arguments. For the kind of groups I played in not coming up with things like crazy new verbs to try on Command would be just as alien to the D&D experience as not quoting Monty Python.

My favorite was always “defecate” just to see what the DM came up with.

 

[R_J_K75]

...but that the people in charge of D&D now think that creative tactics and using abilities in novel and unexpected ways isn’t literally the most fun part of D&D, but rather a problem to be solved. Even if I houserule things like Command, I don’t trust these people to make D&D content that I find fun going forward. And that’s a problem.

This is exactly how I feel and have felt this way for quite some time, probably 3 years if not more. Honestly, I wasn't to be impressed with 5E and didn't actually play it until June 2015 and that game fizzled out after a few sessions. I didn't play again until 2018 for about 6-8 months, and then we played from late 2020 to 2021. But none of our games lasted too long, so since it came out in 2014 I've probably only played it for maybe 2 years on and off, and that was because myself and my group didn't find it very fun, and it didn't really innovate anything. The 2024 revision to me seems like a step backwards from what I can gather from online information. Bottom line is that I think to get something truly new and worth playing, as unlikely as it may be, I would like to see D&D in the hands of a smaller company that are passionate about the game and whose success depends on them making quality products.