Commanded undead: Parameters of command

[KiwiGlen]

Related to Rebuked undead: Can the rebuker attack with impunity?http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=168401

SRD:
Evil Clerics and Undead
Evil clerics channel negative energy to rebuke (awe) or command
(control) undead rather than channeling positive energy to turn or
destroy them. An evil cleric makes the equivalent of a turning check.
Undead that would be turned are rebuked instead, and those that would
be destroyed are commanded.
Rebuked: A rebuked undead creature cowers as if in awe (attack rolls
against the creature get a +2 bonus). The effect lasts 10 rounds.
Commanded: A commanded undead creature is under the mental control
of the evil cleric. The cleric must take a standard action to
give mental orders to a commanded undead. At any one time, the
cleric may command any number of undead whose total Hit Dice do not
exceed his level. He may voluntarily relinquish command on any commanded
undead creature or creatures in order to command new ones.

It was my intention to use the Command Undead spell as a guideline to
handle the details of commanded undead.

SRD:
Command Undead
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets: One undead creature
Duration: One day/level
Saving Throw: Will negates; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes
This spell allows you some degree of control over an undead creature.
Assuming the subject is intelligent, it perceives your words and actions
in the most favorable way (treat its attitude as friendly). It will not
attack you while the spell lasts. You can try to give the subject
orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do
anything it wouldn’t ordinarily do. (Retries are not allowed.) An
intelligent commanded undead never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful
orders, but it might be convinced that something very dangerous is worth
doing.
A nonintelligent undead creature gets no saving throw against this
spell. When you control a mindless being, you can communicate only basic
commands, such as “come here,” “go there,” “fight,” “stand still,” and
so on. Nonintelligent undead won’t resist suicidal or obviously harmful
orders.
Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens the commanded
undead (regardless of its Intelligence) breaks the spell.
Your commands are not telepathic. The undead creature must be able to
hear you.
Material Component: A shred of raw meat and a splinter of bone.

With the following additions:

1. Duration is permanent (lasting until the creature is released by the commander or threatened by the commander or its apparent allies) since those that would
be destroyed are commanded and this gives undead reason to hate and despise all clerics

2. The cleric must take a standard action to give mental orders to a commanded undead, so commands must be telepathic and unlimited in distance (of course if the undead is out of sight such commands will probably be limited to "return to me", unless the commander wants to try "kill the next creature you see" for fun)

3. No limit to range as long as both are on the same plane

Comments?

 

[frankthedm]

Actually clerical undead commanding is much better than the spell. Your allies can beat them up for fun. Though i recommend the undead attacking back until specificly commanded not to. I also recommend undead taking every AoO they get the chance to.

.

 

[KiwiGlen]

Your allies can beat them up for fun

That breaks the command the cleric has over the undead creature IMHO

 

[Rystil Arden]

That breaks the command the cleric has over the undead creature IMHO

Except it doesn't say that under commanding undead, so it will not happen by the book. It is perfectly reasonable to implement this as a houserule if you want it to work that way, however.

 

[Magesmiley]

Having played a necromancer-style cleric on a couple of occasions (as well as DMing a bunch over the years), commanding is complete control. You can order them to even do suicidal things. This is a powerful ability, but, there are some limitations.

1. You need to use a standard action to command the undead. This is very significant if your cleric is running around with some undead under his/her control. Follow this scrupulously and you'll find that your party's cleric is spending a bunch of time directing his/her undead during combat rather than casting spells and whatnot.

Directing the undead to "attack the enemy" is different from attacking a specific creature (which can be very significant if you have multiple undead). Using the first would typically cause the undead to attack the nearest one, whereas the latter would cause them to concentrate on one target (and you'd need to give another command on subsequent rounds to attack another).

2. The death of the cleric. This is bad. Very, very bad for the players. My group had this happen when I had an athach skeleton under my control. It was very ugly as they suddenly had another threat to contend with in addition to the doppleganger sorcerer who had just fireballed the group.

3. Other evil clerics (ooh look, undead to control!). Its entirely possible for another evil cleric to rebuke/control your undead. This can be very ugly, particularly if both of the clerics have undead they've brought to the fight.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Except it doesn't say that under Command Undead...

It does say it under Command Undead; it doesn't say it under Evil Clerics and Undead: Commanded. Which was Frank's point

-Hyp.

 

[Rystil Arden]

It does say it under Command Undead; it doesn't say it under Evil Clerics and Undead: Commanded. Which was Frank's point

-Hyp.

That's what I meant by not italicising. However, I was admittedly unclear--I'll edit in an -ing.

 

[PallidPatience]

Don't use Command Undead as a guideline for Clerical undead commanding. It's a poor substitute. Would you use a rickety old wooden bridge as a guideline for the Golden Gate Bridge?

Command Undead is an artificial way to do what NE-channeling clerics can do with their gods' blessing. It's only capable of controlling the Undead in the most basic of ways, and, as such, is hardly worth most peoples' time (except in some situations.

Commanding them via NE-channeling, though, is wonderful! It allows complete mental control of the subject, down to the last action. Is the vampire lying to you? You can command him to tell the truth! Is he angering you? Hand him a stake and force him to start his own death for you!

Think of it this way: channeling negative energy allows the Cleric to get a grip on the very force animating the undead, handing over the strings to the body and soul/mind/whatever you want to think of it as. Command Undead is just a clumsy attempt by wizards to attain the same thing, but their knowledge of NE is slim, so they can only end up with a semi-charmed/dominated creature.

Command Undead is the knock-off, not the ability to command via rebuking.