D&D 4E Comment about 4E designers loving D&D

[Glyfair]

From what we're seeing, though, we're already getting massive changes. Not just rules tweaks, but the whole enchilada..

So? What does that have to do with your point?

I'll note that Chris Pramas of Green Ronin, who was so worried about a 4th edition he tried to distance his company from a rules upgrade, felt that they were willing to make a major change was a good thing. He was afraid of small revisions that wouldn't really be worth a new edition, a "3.75" version of 4E. He felt that major changes were worthwhile and called for in a 4th edition.

 

[Morrus]

I like this quote today from James Wyatt-



3E is inherently unbalanced...

I wonder how the designers of 3.0 feel about comments like this?

What, everything they say has to keep every fan happy AND the previous designers of D&D? Man, if I were them I'd just shut up now and not say a word until release.

Ah, wait, that won't be good enough either.

I bet they're terrified when they write their blogs. No wonder the blogs are so neutral sounding, when they now every word is going to be picked apart and negative motives assigned to them. They probably rewrite every sentence, wondering how that could be taken the wrong way by someone out there on teh intrawebs.

 

[DaveMage]

I like this quote today from James Wyatt-

3E is inherently unbalanced...

I wonder how the designers of 3.0 feel about comments like this?

James and I seem to have very different tastes....

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I'll note that Chris Pramas of Green Ronin, who was so worried about a 4th edition he tried to distance his company from a rules upgrade, felt that they were willing to make a major change was a good thing. He was afraid of small revisions that wouldn't really be worth a new edition, a "3.75" version of 4E. He felt that major changes were worthwhile and called for in a 4th edition.

Chris Pramas' beliefs and the actions he's taken based on them are certainly more meaningful to me than vague "Haaaay guuuuuyz! We luuuuuuv D&D, ya digg it?" type cheese. Sure, and WoW's devs love WoW, but they've taken it to places where I don't luv it no mo'!*

* - For the record, I think 4E will be a largely positive change (like 90% positive atm).

 

[mhensley]

No wonder the blogs are so neutral sounding, when they now every word is going to be picked apart and negative motives assigned to them. They probably rewrite every sentence, wondering how that could be taken the wrong way by someone out there on teh intrawebs.

How is that different from any post anyone makes here?

 

[Glyfair]

I wonder how the designers of 3.0 feel about comments like this?

Take a look at the House Rules (and here, too) for Monte Cooks most recent D&D game to see what direction his opinion likely head towards.

20 levels of spells (1 per character level)
Some "always on" or "always available" abilities for spellcasters.
Spell roll instead of a saving throw.
Giving out more feats.
Modified hit point structure.

A lot of these sound exactly like 4th edition. I doubt Monte thinks his changes aren't some sort of improvement.

 

[F4NBOY]

"we want to make a better D&D"
"you just want our money"

"we're are making a better D&D game"
"so you mean that 3E, the game I've spent thousands of dollars into, just sucks?"

"the game is becoming great because we do love D&D"
"so the old game is not good because the designer didn't love it back then?"

"no more CR, better grapple rules, all classes always have something funny to do!"
"you are changing D&D too much for someone who claims to love it, something is wrong..."

"It's a new edition of D&D, much better but there are still classes and the d20 system stands!"
"so it's not a "real" new edition just another update... it's 3.75!"

"there will be no 4.5, its 4th edition!"
"so you won't update the game anymore, or will just release a whole new edition in some years?"

Such a no-winning situation... give it a break, just for a while...

 

[frankthedm]

I like this quote today from James Wyatt-



3E is inherently unbalanced...

I wonder how the designers of 3.0 feel about comments like this?

I think he was reffering to the escalation of power.

 

[Glyfair]

A lot of these sound exactly like 4th edition. I doubt Monte thinks his changes aren't some sort of improvement.

Oh, yeah. Here is an "old time designer" on 3E when it was announced.

* Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:59:42 -0500
From: Gary & Gail Gygax
Subject: 3E D&D Game

Greetings, Seekers

I read all the postings on the Digest for the 6-7 August list with some interest. My first assignment for WotC/TSR is to *critique* the new rules As I haven't had the opportunity to sit down and read them as a whole, all the FAQ material and speculation based thereon seem pretty meaningless. This is a game whole that must be judged only when it can be read, and *played*, as such.

While I find a certain sympathy with the comments from many, and those of Nathanael D. Wentz in particular, I must say that there is also a good deal of pessimistic opinion therein that I believe should be left aside for later. That is, how about giving the game a chance before judging/condemning it?

Another thing: Over the past three years I have had the opportunity to become reasonably well acquainted with Peter Adkison. In my opinion he is, to put it mildly, a great guy. He is indeed a D&D gamer. While a lot of people like to snipe at success, this is a very negative and foolish attitude. After all, don't we all want to succeed? Of course, and we should praise and emulate, not attack, those who achieve something meritorious. Maybe some here, as in the "industry at large", think it chic to criticize the MtG CCG. Sure sounds like sour grapes from here. As far as I am concerned it was and is a masterful stroke of game design--as a lot more people than those who play RPGs will agree. The POKEMON CCG is likewise genius! Credit where it is due, please.

It is now up to RPG publishers, and *players*, to get out there and convert the unwashed CCG masses to the true gaming faith, of course. Stop grousing that there are now millions more potential converts around and get to proselytizing!

Lastly, I think that WotC/TSR is a company that is concerned with the opinions of the fans, you and I. This is pretty well supported by the material posted in the FAQs here from them, no? This likely means that what the *majority* of participants want will be given in the game. And, as Nathanael D. Wentz pointed out, those of us who find the material not "right" can indeed exercise the DM's purview and "correct" the system...

(^_^)

Gary

 

[Doug McCrae]

I wonder how the designers of 3.0 feel about comments like this?

They probably feel much the same way. Monte Cook has said he would do many things differently if he did 3e today. Examples include casters having at will abilities and balance per encounter rather than per day, both of which have found their way into 4e.