Comments and questions on 3.5 from a Newbie

[kenobi65]

Also consider that the fighter's attack, as shown, forces the mage to make a Fortitude check for excessive damage ( >50% of her HP) or go unconcious. Though I believe this is an optional rule, if I remember correctly. It is one that is "standard" at the tables I play in though, which is why I can't remember what the book says.

Sounds like a house rule to me. The only such "core" rule that I'm aware of is the massive damage rule, which makes you make a Fort save if you take (IIRC) 50 or more HP of damage from a single attack.

Under your rule, low-level wizards would be making that roll every time they got hit...which might be the idea, I suppose.

 

[kenobi65]

(smiles ruefully) I can't sit down and play right now. Still searching for a group. Thus, this thread.

Alas.

Let me try the above again

I think you've got the general idea, though if the combat were actually laid out on a grid, not every combatant might always be getting an AoO -- it all depends on where each figure is at the time.

And, in the game, unless Merry were under some actual fear effect, he wouldn't be forced to move (and thus suffer the AoOs). There's no rule on being generally foolish, though I could see some players deciding to roleplay their PCs that way...

 

[rvalle]

You are correct. I have this recurring problem of applying house rules to board posts. Sorry! Presumably the RAW mainly come into play if the wizard is hit by an AoO or taking continuous damage while casting their spell, but since most of the wizards in games we play have Concentration maxed out, they always cast defensively anyway. We applied the "when you take damage, period" rule in our game because it seemed weird for wizards to be sucking up damage and still standing there casting spells right and left.

-The Gneech

Ahhh... no problems. I just wanted to make sure I had the rule right. I'm kind of in Edena's boat but I'm running a game as well. I also didn't want Edena to get confused by someone's house rules.

Actually your house rule sounds good. This is one of the places where dnd's 'everything happens at the same time' and 'each player goes in sequence' just doesn't mesh well.

rv

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

I will create the characters in question:

Claire (aka Cute Elven Mage)

Character Level 5, Wizard 5th
Medium sized humanoid (Elf) (subrace high elf)
Str 10, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 16, Wis 11, Cha 13
Neutral Good, reveres Sehanine Moonbow
Hit Points: 24
Base AC 10, Modifiers: Dex + 3 (Modified AC 13)
Base Saves + 1 Fort, + 1 Ref, + 4 Will: Modifiers: + 2 Fort (Con), + 3 Ref (Dex) (Modified Saves: + 3 Fort, + 4 Ref, + 4 Will)
Move: 30 feet
BAB + 2
Initiative modifier: + 4 (Dex), + 4 (Improved Initiative), (Modified Initiative: + 8)
Spell DC modifier: + 3 (Int)
Spells 4 (0 level), 4, 3, 2
Spells readied: Light, Acid Splash, Disrupt Undead, Mage Armor, Shocking Grasp, Shocking Grasp, Magic Missile, Protection from Arrows, Melf's Acid Arrow, Scorching Ray, Fireball, Hold Person
Feats: Skill Focus (Concentration), Improved Initiative, Scribe Scroll, Enlarge Spell
Skills: Concentration 8 ranks (+ 3 Skill Focus, + 2 Constitution), Knowledge Arcana 4 ranks (+ 3 Intelligence), Listen (+ 2 racial), Search 3 ranks (6 points spent) (+ 3 Intelligence, + 2 racial), Spellcraft 8 ranks, Spot 3 ranks (6 points spent) (+ 2 racial)

Weapons: Long Sword (1 - 8, Crit 19-20/x2, 4#, slashing), Daggers (2) (1 - 4, Crit 19-20/x2, Range Increment 10 feet, 1#, piercing/slashing, Long Bow (1 - 6, 20/x3, Range Increment 100 feet, 3#, piercing.)
Attack Bonuses: Long Sword (none, and - 4 non-proficiency penalty), Daggers (+ 3 Dexterity if thrown), Light Crossbow (+ 3 Dexterity)

Other: 120 years of age, 4 feet 6 inches tall, 80 pounds, long raven black hair (let down), blue eyes, milky skin.

Damage Bonuses: None

Racial Abilities: + 2 Dexterity, - 2 Constitution, base speed 30 feet, immunity to magic sleep effects, + 2 saves against enchantment spells and effects, Low Light Vision, Martial Weapon Proficiency for the long sword, rapier, long bow, composite long bow, short bow, and composite short bow, + 2 bonus to Listen, Search, and Spot checks, secret door detection, learned languages of Common, Elven, Draconian, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, and Sylvan, Favored Class Wizard.

-

Narrin

Character Level 5, Fighter 5th
Medium sized (human)
Str 18, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 13, Wis 11, Cha 10
Neutral, reveres Tempus
Hit Points: 42
Base AC 10, Modifiers: Armor + 8, Shield + 2, Dex + 1 (Modified AC 21)
Armor Check Penalty: - 8
Base Saves + 4 Fort, + 1 Ref, + 1 Will: Modifiers: + 2 Fort (Con), + 2 Ref (Dex) (Modified Saves: + 3 Fort, + 3 Ref, + 1 Will)
BAB + 5 (+ 4 Strength), (+ 1 Weapon Focus (Heavy Pick)
Initiative modifier: + 2 (Dex)
Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Heavy Pick), Weapon Specialization (Heavy Pick), Two Weapon Proficiency, Point Blank Shot + Armor Proficiency Light, Armor Proficiency Medium, Armor Proficiency Heavy, Simple Weapon Proficiency, Martial Weapon Proficiency (Note that Narrin intends to take Rapid Shot at 6th level, Improved Two Weapon Fighting at 8th level, and Improved Critical at 9th level)
Skills: Climb 4 ranks (Str + 4), Jump 4 ranks (Str + 4), Swim 8 ranks (Str + 4), Spot 4 ranks (8 points spent)

Weapons: Heavy Pick (1 - 6, Crit 20/x4, 6#, piercing), Long Sword (1 - 8, Crit 19-20/x2, 4#, slashing), Light Pick (1 - 4, Crit 20/x4, 3#, piercing), Throwing Axe (1 - 6, Crit 20/x2, Range Increment 10 feet, 2#, slashing), Heavy Composite Bow modified for 18 Strength (1 - 8, 20/x3, Range Increment 110 feet, 3 #, piercing), quiver and 20 arrows, Unarmed 1d3

Attack Bonuses: Heavy Pick (+ 4 Strength, + 2 Weapon Specialization), Long Sword (+ 4 Strength), Light Pick (+ 4 Strength), Throwing Axe (+ 4 Strength or + 2 Dexterity), Heavy Composite Bow (+ 2 Dexterity, + 1 Point Blank Shot), Unarmed (+ 4 Strength)

Damage Bonuses: Heavy Pick (+ 4 Strength, + 1 Weapon Focus), Long Sword (+ 4 Strength or + 2 if used off-hand), Light Pick (+ 4 Strength), Throwing Axe (+ 4 Strength), Arrows (+ 4 Strength), Unarmed (+ 4 Strength)

Now, these two should be ready to fight, IF I have correctly created them (not including mundane equipment.)

 

[The_Gneech]

They need hit points. If you assume "average" rolls, that would be 22 for Claire and 42 for Narrin.

-TG

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

LOL. Nothing like missing the forest for the trees.

Claire adds 1 to her Intelligence at 4th level.
Narrin adds 1 to his Strength at 4th level.

EDIT: Modified again as of now. Neither of them has any magical or masterwork items.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Claire is actually a Medium Humanoid (Elf). Additionally, since she's an elf, she's proficient in the longsword. Additionally, you could give her a longbow or a shortbow and she could use them proficiently (and skip the long reloading time of the crossbow).

Her initiative modifier is also off by one; she's got a +3 Dex bonus, not +4.

She's also got the Scribe Scroll item creation feat for free (all wizards start with it).

EDIT:

Spot is also a cross-class skill for wizards. At level 5, she can only have 4 ranks in it.

 

[William Ronald]

Hi, Edena.

I would also suggest that the characters would have some idea that a fight might be coming. In the case of Claire, she may well have already cast Mage Armor which lasts 1 hour per level. Most arcane casters that I have seen use the spell at low to mid-levels. The spell will give here a +4 Armor Class bonus, increasing here AC to 17.

Another good spell for arcane casters is the 2nd level spell False Life, which lasts up to 1 hour/level and can give 1d10 +1 hp/level (maximum +10 hp at 10th level) of temporary hit points. So, this spell could give the caster an average of 10 temporary hit points.

Also, you will have to decide how close the characters are to each other when they see each other. (Spot checks can help.) Much of this combat will depend on the distance of the characters.

It might be worthwhile to see if someone in your area is running a demo. Maybe some of the people on the boards in your area might be interested ina Southwest Florida EN World Gameday. Or if there is someone in your area on the boards who is willing to run a one shot game to help you try the rules.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Ok, I made the changes. Note that Claire is a generic high elf of the old mold, standing 4 1/2 feet tall, and weighing in at 80 pounds. She is as young as an elven wizard can be. She is not a moon elf (one of the high elves of Toril) and is visiting from another world.

Narrin is a native of the land of Damara, wearing the ornate plate armor of the ancient and mighty Empire of Damara. He dreams of restoring that empire, but right now is reduced to brigandry.
A very loyal young lad serves as his squire, helping him don his plate armor. He is dedicated to restoring the ancient empire as well.

Claire is in Damara, looking for it's lost treasures. Unfortunately, she is alone now: bad things happened to her companions, and they are currently elsewhere.

And so ...

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

An exhausted Claire has stopped in a clearing in the pine forests of Damara to rest briefly. The land is perilous, she is alone, and she is on her guard. It is midday. She is trying to find the home of a healer said to live around here, so that healer can save her companions.
Several thousand feet away, is the hidden home of Narrin. Narrin waylays treasure-hunters (and others) who come seeking the lost fortunes of Damara, taking all their items if they do not resist, and killing them if they do. He sells the items through a network of allies dedicated to restoring Damara, hoping to eventually build a fortress and an army. (The healer and Narrin are foes, incidentally.)

Narrin scans the road, the fields, the scattered woodlands from his hidden observatory on a hillock 100 feet high. He peers through the pinewoods, the birch trees, the clearings, the occasional meadow, all around, looking for signs of movement.
Narrin looks up and down the distant road, one of the ancient roads of Damara. Nothing is moving on that road. Adventurers avoid it, knowing dangers await the unwary. The native people avoid it, considering it cursed. Narrin expects to find nothing there, but he has oftentimes seen or heard treasure-hunters trying to sneak (or march) through the woodlands.

Just what kind of Search check does Narrin need, to become aware of Claire, resting in the glade about 3,000 feet away?
Narrin takes 20 for the attempt, remember. He searches long and hard for clues of folk moving about.

What number does he need?

Claire is exhausted, but she is not so exhausted she does not Search the surrounding woodlands for signs of danger.
She sees the hillock in the distance, obviously. But Narrin has carefully concealed himself in the trees, behind an artificial cover he and his squire built and nurtured. And he is actively trying to not be seen.

Claire has taken 20 also. What roll does she need, to see Narrin hiding up in the brush, atop that hillock?