Comments and questions on 3.5 from a Newbie

[MonsterMash]

Armour check penalty will be -8 IIRC, -6 Full Plate -2 Large Steel Shield, unless masterwork items in which case penalties are reduced by 1 on each.

What skills are you going to give (total skill points are 16 if I've calculated correctly 1st level human 4 + (2+1 (for int) x4) - 16.)

 

[kenobi65]

Other than what's already been noted, he seems to be correctly (if inefficiently) put together.

Endurance, Diehard, and Dodge are probably not the most optimal set of starting feats, but that's personal choice. Me, I would have at least gone for Weapon Focus, if not Power Attack (in order to get Cleave soon thereafter).

 

[kenobi65]

If you're in a dungeon, and you lose your light, you're in big trouble.

{snip}

Invisibility is nice.

Yeah, concealment (which is what darkness and invisibility grant) can be a complete PITA.

Player: "I hit!"
DM: "Roll for the miss chance for concealment."
Player: "&%#$@! Now I missed!"

 

[BeauNiddle]

Edena - unless beating the Drill Sargeant is some personal victory you could do what the rest of us mortals do and cheat

Wonko the Sane found me this link a while back so I'll pass it on.

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=105443

Agraminyu's reference sheets are brilliant. Sprinkle a couple of the player reference sheets around the table, give the casters the magic sheets and keep the DM and campaign sheets for yourself and you're set.

A lot of this stuff is on the DMs screen as already pointed out but having multiple refence sheets for the players stops them having to ask you.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

I skipped the skills for now.
I gave Joe Fighter feats that would not affect most kinds of combat (at least, I think they won't) so that I could ask questions about him concerning the special attacks. I realize the feats are wrong for Joe Fighter.

I updated the Armor Check penalty for Joe Fighter to - 8, by the way.

I ... hmmm ... am being overwhelmed by it all. You remember your very first game of D&D? How it was all big and mysterious and all that? Well, that's me here.
I'm a bit intimidated, too. (When you look at page after page of rules that you can't decipher, it can be intimidating.)
That's why I tried (and might succeed) in memorizing the Standard Actions, Full Round Actions, and all of that. Because if I do, it will seem less overawing, less intimidating.
The drill sargeant is, of course, me. When I find a new group and start playing again, I don't want to burden the DM. I don't want to force the DM to spend time helping me (holding my hand, as it were.) The poor DM has enough troubles of his own.

And yet, for all my efforts, I keep missing obvious things. And I'm not remembering obvious things from the past (EVERYONE knew dexterity was the key to attack rolls for ranged weapons in 2E, including me. Forgetting that, is like forgetting that 2 + 2 = 4! )

I want to open the PHB and DMG, and read the pages, and those pages be friendly, like the old books were.
I don't want to open the books, and be intimidated by them. They should be old friends.

Anyways, since Joe Fighter is - minus the skills - complete, I can now place him in hypothetical situations (like a grapple attempt), show what happens, and ask you if I got it right.
I really DO appreciate your help. And the moderators for allowing this thread, too. Thank you all.

So, I'm back to asking questions and making comments. One day perhaps I will be as proficient as you'all are with 3.5.
Maybe soon I will be proficient enough to shop-talk with people on ENWorld. I will be able to make relevant comments on topics, and will actually have something to say. When people discuss new feats and prestige classes and settings, it will mean something to me, and I can enjoy the conversation. And that will be nice indeed. But for now, I'm still Mr. Questions.

I bookmarked the link. Thank you very much, BeauNiddle.

Yours Sincerely
Edena_of_Neith

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Joe Fighter, Player Character.

Medium sized human.
Strength 13, Dexterity 13, Constitution 13, Intelligence 13, Wisdom 13, Charisma 13.
Character Level 1. Fighter 1st.

Hit Points 11.
BAB + 1.
Fortitude Base Save Bonus: + 2
Reflex BSB: + 0
Will BSB: + 0

Feats: Armor Proficiency Light, Armor Proficiency Medium, Armor Proficiency Heavy, Simple Weapon Proficiency, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Endurance, Diehard, Dodge

Armor Class: 22 (+ 8 Armor, + 2 Shield, + 1 Dexterity, + 1 Dodge)
Attack Bonus Long Sword + 2 (+ 1 BAB, + 1 Strength)
Attack Bonus Short Sword + 2 (+ 1 BAB, + 1 Strength)
Attack Bonus Long Bow + 2 (+ 1 BAB, + 1 Dexterity)
Modified Fortitude Save: + 3 (+ 2 BSB, + 1 Constitution)
Modified Reflex Save: + 1 (+ 0 BSB, + 1 Dexterity)
Modified Will Save: + 1 (+ 0 BSB, + 1 Wisdom)
Movement: 20 Feet
Armor Check Penalty: - 8

Items (all items are Medium items unless otherwise denoted) :

Full Plate Armor
Heavy Shield (steel)
Long Sword
Short Sword
Long Bow
Quiver and 20 Arrows

-

Joe Fighter sees Joe Orc standing 30 feet away.
Joe Orc is a medium humanoid, all stats 13, character level 1, fighter 1st, hit points 11, BAB + 1, Fort + 2, Ref + 0, Will + 0, Feats as per Fighter plus Dodge, Diehard, and Endurance, and is also wearing full plate, carrying a heavy steel shield, and has a long sword, short sword, and long bow.
In other words, Joe Orc is just like Joe Fighter, except he's nasty and evil and otherwise orcish to the hilt.

Neither Joe Fighter or Joe Orc are surprised, so there is no surprise round.
Joe Fighter rolls initiative 7, and Joe Orc rolls intiative 5. With Dexterity modifiers of + 1 each, Joe Fighter wins initiative.
On round 1, the two close with each other, but neither hits the other. Round 1 is a dud.

-

On Round 2:

Joe Fighter attempts a BULL RUSH against Joe Orc.
- Joe Fighter moves into the square occupied by Joe Orc. This provokes an AOO from Joe Orc. Joe Orc takes his AOO with his long sword, rolls a 13 (+ 1 BAB and + 1 for Str makes it 15) and misses (Joe Fighter is AC 22 on round 2, was AC 20 when flat-footed.) Nobody else is nearby to make AOOs against either Joe Fighter or Joe Orc.
- Joe Fighter and Joe Orc make an OPPOSED STRENGTH CHECK. Both are Medium sized, so there are no Size Modifiers. Joe Fighter was not charging, so he does not get a + 2 bonus. The orc is not especially durable on his legs, so he does not get a + 4 bonus.
Joe Fighter rolls a 17 on a d20. Joe Orc rolls an 8 on a d20. Joe Fighter has a BAB + 1 and a Str + 1 bonus, so his modified roll is a 19. Joe Orc has a BAB + 1 and a Str + 1 modifier, so his modified roll is a 10. Joe Fighter wins, because his roll is higher.
- Joe Fighter pushes Joe Orc back 10 feet (5 feet, plus Joe Fighter beat Joe Orc's roll by 9 points, meaning he can push him back another 5 feet.)
- Joe Fighter only gets 1 attack with his primary hand (and he isn't using his secondary hand) so he has used up his one attack for the round. Joe Fighter's minature is moved back one space, since he cannot end his move in Joe Fighter's square.

Joe Orc (not happy with being shoved around) attempts to DISARM Joe Fighter on his initiative, on round 2.
- Joe Orc attempts to disarm Joe Fighter with his long sword. He is attempting to disarm Joe Fighter of a melee weapon. This attempt provokes an AOO from Joe Fighter. Joe Fighter takes his AOO with his long sword, rolling a 5 (modified to 6 for Str) an obvious miss.
- Joe Orc and Joe Fighter make OPPOSED ATTACK ROLLS. (This concept is not real clear to me ...) Joe Orc rolls a 15, while Joe Fighter rolls a 12. Both have + 1 BAB and + 1 for Str, so the rolls are modified to 17 and 14. Joe Orc rolled higher, so he wins. He disarms Joe Fighter, and Joe Fighter's long sword flies from his grasp and lands on the ground in Joe Fighter's square.

It is now Round 3, and it is now Joe Fighter's turn.
- Joe Fighter decides to pick up his weapon. This provokes an AOO from Joe Orc. Joe Orc rolls a 19 with his long sword. He has BAB + 1 and + 1 for Str. His modified roll is 21. But Joe Fighter is AC 22, and he does not lose his Dex or Dodge Bonus (he designated the orc as his foe for his + 1 Dodge bonus) for picking up his sword. Thus, Joe Orc misses.
- Joe Fighter now has his weapon. Picking it up was a Move Action. Joe Fighter is still allowed a Standard Action, and Melee Attack is a Standard Action. Joe Fighter attacks, rolls a 17, which is modified to a 19 (+ 1 BAB and + 1 Str) and misses because Joe Orc is AC 22 (Joe Orc designated Joe Fighter as his foe for his Dodge bonus also. This could be a long combat ...)

It is now Joe Orc's turn, and he strikes at Joe Fighter, rolls a 20 and that is an automatic hit (but it would have hit anyways, since his + 1 BAB and + 1 Str added up to a 22, and Joe Fighter had a 22 AC.)
- Joe Orc rolls badly for damage. He rolls a 2. A long sword does x 2 on Criticals, and Joe Orc has a + 1 bonus for Str, so his damage is 6 points (2x2, + 2.)

Round 3 is now over.

Is everything I wrote above correct, so far? Especially, did I get Bull Rush and Disarm right?
Did I get Opposed Strength Checks and Opposed Attack Rolls right?

 

[kenobi65]

It is now Joe Orc's turn, and he strikes at Joe Fighter, rolls a 20 and that is an automatic hit (but it would have hit anyways, since his + 1 BAB and + 1 Str added up to a 22, and Joe Fighter had a 22 AC.)

There's an important step missing here. Rolling a natural 20 (or, hitting when the number on the die is within the crit range) is a critical threat, not a critical hit. Joe Orc needs to confirm the crit.

He does this by rolling the d20 again, and using the same modifiers he had on the roll that created the threat. In this case, he again gets +2. If he hits the opponent's AC again on the confirmation roll, it's now a critical hit. Otherwise, it's just a normal hit. (And, in this case, since Joe Orc only has a +2 attack bonus, and Joe Fighter has an AC of 22, Joe Orc would need to roll a 20 again to confirm.)

- Joe Orc rolls badly for damage. He rolls a 2. A long sword does x 2 on Criticals, and Joe Orc has a + 1 bonus for Str, so his damage is 6 points (2x2, + 2.)

The way I've always seen crits done is, rather than multiply the dice, you actually roll the dice multiple times. So, if you do 1d8+1 damage with a longsword, you roll 2d8+2 on a crit.

 

[Flyspeck23]

I ... hmmm ... am being overwhelmed by it all. You remember your very first game of D&D? How it was all big and mysterious and all that? Well, that's me here.
I'm a bit intimidated, too. (When you look at page after page of rules that you can't decipher, it can be intimidating.)
That's why I tried (and might succeed) in memorizing the Standard Actions, Full Round Actions, and all of that. Because if I do, it will seem less overawing, less intimidating.

Don't feel intimidated, because then the rules have already won
Relax, it's cool. You seem to know the previous editions quite well, so how bad can it get?

As others have pointed out above, if you know the difference between a standard and a full round action, the only thing left to do is to decide what type a particular action is. d20 is, at its heart, a very logical games with logical rules. No need to memorize it all.

And btw, the "big and mysterious" part is great, and I sometimes wish I could go back there when 3rd edition was still new (and 2e before that). Funny, but for me it's only the most recent edition of D&D that ever evokes those feelings, and no other RPG...

When I find a new group and start playing again, I don't want to burden the DM. I don't want to force the DM to spend time helping me (holding my hand, as it were.) The poor DM has enough troubles of his own.

Oh, some DMs would love to help new players to understand the rules. I know I do

 

[Staffan]

- Joe Fighter and Joe Orc make an OPPOSED STRENGTH CHECK. Both are Medium sized, so there are no Size Modifiers. Joe Fighter was not charging, so he does not get a + 2 bonus. The orc is not especially durable on his legs, so he does not get a + 4 bonus.
Joe Fighter rolls a 17 on a d20. Joe Orc rolls an 8 on a d20. Joe Fighter has a BAB + 1 and a Str + 1 bonus, so his modified roll is a 19. Joe Orc has a BAB + 1 and a Str + 1 modifier, so his modified roll is a 10. Joe Fighter wins, because his roll is higher.

The roll is a Strength check, so BAB doesn't enter into it. Just Strength, and some other modifiers that are irrelevant to the situation at hand (e.g. size).

 

[Aaron L]

On a crit, damage is rolled again, including all damage modifiers except those which grant extra dice (a +5 sword gets the +5 doubled, but a +5 flaming sword doesnt get the 1d6 flame damage doubled. Strength bonus is always doubled. Or tripled, or what have you.)

A crit with a +5 longsword does 2d8+(strength bonus*2)+10

A crit with a +5 flaming, shocking, acidic longsword does 2d8+(strength bonus*2)+10+1d6+1d6+1d6

Just remember: if its + a number, its gets multiplied in the crit. If its +D whatever, it doesnt.