Complete Adventurer (merged)

[Hypersmurf]

But you're not attacking, you're taking the Manyshot standard action. In fact, unlike such actions as 'Charge', which specifically says you may make a 'melee attack', Manyshot does not use the words ranged attack. You may be attacking, it may be at range, but you are not making a ranged attack. (Now why does that sound familiar? Hmm.) Therefore, no AoO.

"For every five points of base attack bonus you have above +6, you may add one additional arrow to this attack..."

It's definitely an attack.

You're using a bow - a ranged weapon.

The AoO is for attacking with a ranged weapon. Manyshot is certainly attacking with a ranged weapon.

-Hyp.

 

[Wil Harvey]

Guys, take the back-and-forth somewhere else. This thread is big enough. I don't need a couple pages of lengthy, irrelevant rules discussions getting in the way of actual Complete Adventurer information.

 

[Tessarael]

Seeing as it takes levels in 3 classes to get into, no, not really. And "full arcane spell progression" is full bard spell progression, not anywhere near as good as full wiz or sorc spell progression.

Incorrect. It gives progression in any one arcane spellcasting class and in any one divine spellcasting class.

You could meet the requirements with Bard 1 (for Bardic Music)/Druid 6 (for 1st level divine spells)/Monk 2 (for Evasion)/Wizard 1 (for 1st level arcane spells) then Fochlucan Lyricist 10 progressing in Druid and Wizard spellcasting. You'd end up with BAB +14, 16th level Druid spellcasting, 11th level Wizard spellcasting, 11th level Bardic Knowledge, 11 uses of Bardic music per day (only for Fascinate or with the bardic music feats though), and saves of +0/+2/+2 + +5/+2/+5 + +2/+2/+2 + +0/+0/+2 + +3/+7/+7 = +10/+13/+18. Rather nice.

To max out your BAB with Fochlucan Lyricist, I would go something like: Bard 4/Druid 4/Rogue 2/Fochlucan Lyricist 10 (similar to their example build), ending up with BAB +17.

The Fochlucan Lyricist should probably be BAB +3/4. That would give the first example which maxes out spellcasting a BAB of +11, and the second example which maxes out BAB a BAB of +14 (though you can hit BAB +15 with Bard 4/Druid 4/Rogue 4/Fochlucan Lyricist 8 in this case).

And as usual, multiclassed saving throws get ridiculous.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Whats the deal with the ninja class? Any good?

No.

Sorry, that was a cheap shot at someone's work, and I should be ashamed of myself.

Seriously, it's...eh. It's the same class as presented in Dragon, if you saw that. I don't see the reason to have a wussier sneak attack variant than the rogue's. Also, really, ninjae are supposed to be fast, so they should have the monk's enhanced movement.

The ki powers are kind of neat, but otherwise it's eh. Rogue out-ninjas the ninja.

Brad

 

[Banshee16]

My take on the Ninja: it's a nice class, but its sneak attack is LESS effective than a rogue, in that flanking doesn't let him sneak. Shouldn't a ninja be MORE deadly than a rogue with sneak attack ?

Maybe it's just me...

I'd tend to agree...but in all honesty, I'd be satisfied with them being as good at sneak attacking as a rogue. I don't need them to be better. But they should definitely be able to flank. I remember a book I read that discussed some of their supposed unarmed combat techniques mentioned simple yet sneaky attacks like slipping a shuriken into someone's armpit when they're grappling, then forcing the arm down on it, and stuff like that. I'd say that classifies as a sneak attack...

I'm less a fan of having them turn invisible or ethereal or whatever.

Banshee

 

[Banshee16]

If you want a "ninja" without the ninja magic, it's on page 49 of the PHB.

No....that's a rogue....a thief....a bandit..

By my definition, a ninja should be better at combat than a rogue.....but I would *not* say better than a fighter.

One's a miscreant of the streets, a possible scout or spy, and the other is basically a commando/spy/scout/actor that's been trained since the age of 5 in their arts..

Same thing with how there is a samurai, and then there's a fighter. Very different things. It's also why I like the cavalier base class for knights, rather than fighters. Both samurai and cavaliers should be much more skill focused warriors than fighters are....they're good at diplomacy, some knowledge skills, and a bunch of other things than simply jump, climb, swim, ride, craft.

Banshee

 

[Ruvion]

Hmmm...since the age of 5? been reading too many glorified ninja books haven't you? if going historically, a 3rd edition rogue just may out-fight and out-ninja the ninja. the perception of how well a ninja should perform differs from ppl to ppl i guess.

 

[drnuncheon]

No....that's a rogue....a thief....a bandit..

...a sailor, a scout, a minstrel, a spy, an assassin, a craftsman, an explorer, a salesman, an actor...

Let me guess - you want the katana to have better stats, too?

J

 

[Xyvs]

Anything for archer types?

Hi. I was hoping someone who has the book can answer a couple questions for me. I am looking to create a cleric of Ehlonna who is also a archery warrior. Right now, I am speccing her out as a cleric/ranger. But I was wondering if the scout might be better.

-Can someone with the book tell me how the skrimish damage progresses?
-Also, when does the scout gain evasion and uncanny dodge?
-What type of feats does the scout get and at what levels?
-Does the scout have good reflex saves and poor will and fort saves?
-Is tumble a scout skill?

-Do you think a ranger would better fit the archer archetype? Or the scout? The one thing that worries me about the scout is its medium BAB. Don't know if I want to take the bab hit when I already have cleric levels.

-Also, any good new spells for the ranger that enhance their archery abilities?

Thanks!

Oh, and anyone from the Irvine area know of a good game store close to campus that has the book?

X

 

[Silveras]

Hi. I was hoping someone who has the book can answer a couple questions for me. I am looking to create a cleric of Ehlonna who is also a archery warrior. Right now, I am speccing her out as a cleric/ranger. But I was wondering if the scout might be better.

-Can someone with the book tell me how the skrimish damage progresses?
-Also, when does the scout gain evasion and uncanny dodge?
-What type of feats does the scout get and at what levels?
-Does the scout have good reflex saves and poor will and fort saves?
-Is tumble a scout skill?

-Do you think a ranger would better fit the archer archetype? Or the scout? The one thing that worries me about the scout is its medium BAB. Don't know if I want to take the bab hit when I already have cleric levels.

-Also, any good new spells for the ranger that enhance their archery abilities?

1) Every odd level starting at 3rd (3, 5, 7, 9, 11, etc., either damage dice or AC bonus improves.
2) Evasion 5th, Uncanny Dodge 2nd
3) every 4 levels (4, 8, 12, etc.). The feats are from the "woodsy", "movement enhancing" and some ranged combat enhancement groups. Interestingly, they get Rapid Reload but not Rapid Shot or Manyshot, presumably to keep some distiction from the Ranger.
4) Yes
5) Yes

The illustration for the class shows an archer. Yes, it could make a decent archer, I think. The Scout seems like an attempt at a "non-spellcasting" version of the Ranger, in some ways, more focused on a pure woodsman/scouting role without the semi-druid features.

Spells ? Five 1st level Ranger spells enhance ranged attacks. One lets you use sneak attacks beyond 30 ft (for the Ranger/Rogue); another increases the range increment for your weapon for a while; a third removes the range penalties entirely for 1 round; the fourth auto-confirms critical threats against favored enemies; the fifth lets you threaten nearby squares with your bow so you can fire with no AoOs.