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NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
Complete Arcane (10 reasons)
- Thread starter MerricB
- Start date
Fingers Boggis
First Post
just another shout out for merric, yes he's enthusiastic about pretty much everything but i think this makes a refreshing change from the current trend of sayin most wizards products are flawed in some way. Its nice to read posts that can see usefulness through any flaws. I think its also worth pointing out that when there is an aspect of a product he doesnt like merric explains why rather than just saying its crap as some do. Merrics reviews, along with those of others, often form a big part of my decision making on new purchases as I almost always have to mail order. so cheers merric 
i expect its aleady been noted but thte wallpapers reveal we can expect a new, hopefully more mechanically viable, acolyte of the skin. Like the other complete x books and races of y books i can't wait for this and feel it wil be an excellent addition to my bookshelf, i just wish theyd all come out quicker so i can get on with my new campaign design
cheers
fingers
i expect its aleady been noted but thte wallpapers reveal we can expect a new, hopefully more mechanically viable, acolyte of the skin. Like the other complete x books and races of y books i can't wait for this and feel it wil be an excellent addition to my bookshelf, i just wish theyd all come out quicker so i can get on with my new campaign design
cheers
fingers
shilsen
Adventurer
I enjoy Merric's posts. I may not agree with all of his assessments, but I doubt that we could find anyone whose tastes would completely agree with mine, and that's the way it should be. He provides a lot of useful information and is evidently putting in a lot of effort to gather the info he does. And I like the fact that he is so obviously enthusiastic about the game and game products. Sounds like someone having fun with D&D, and AFAIK, that's what most of us at this site are here for.
The_Gneech
Explorer
Yay, Merric! 
(I was not paid to say this.
)
-The Gneech
(I was not paid to say this.
)-The Gneech
The_Gunslinger658
First Post
One Idea I was thinking about for Bards was following the 1E AD&D progression style IE The Bard starts as a fighter for 6 level's, switch's to Rogue for 4 or 5 level's then becomes a Druid for 2 or 3 level's and finally enters the Bard class at around 13th or 15th level. Granted its a long haul, but perhaps thats the way it was supposed to be.
Scott
Scott
Ranes said:
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eris404
Explorer
I have to admit I'm pretty interested in the Warlock class. I'm not usually a fan of alternate core classes, but this sounds neat. From Wizard's site:
"Warlock: Complete Arcane offers three new base classes. Of these, the warlock is the most different from the standard D&D spellcaster. A warlock has innate magical power stemming from a supernatural bloodline. Rather than casting spells, he uses invocations -- powers that function as spell-like abilities. In addition, the warlock has damage reduction and can attack with an eldritch blast -- a magical ray that deals increasing damage as he attains levels in the class."
And I agree about the bard - I play one right now, and sometimes I feel just a little bit stymied in certain situations; not badly enough to play a new character though. I'd like to see if there are any new spells or feats in CA that might be appropriate. I'm not looking for a major overhaul, just a little tweak.
"Warlock: Complete Arcane offers three new base classes. Of these, the warlock is the most different from the standard D&D spellcaster. A warlock has innate magical power stemming from a supernatural bloodline. Rather than casting spells, he uses invocations -- powers that function as spell-like abilities. In addition, the warlock has damage reduction and can attack with an eldritch blast -- a magical ray that deals increasing damage as he attains levels in the class."
And I agree about the bard - I play one right now, and sometimes I feel just a little bit stymied in certain situations; not badly enough to play a new character though. I'd like to see if there are any new spells or feats in CA that might be appropriate. I'm not looking for a major overhaul, just a little tweak.
fafhrd
First Post
It's likely my bias coming out here, but I am none too keen on what I'm hearing so far. Here's the break down.
The Complete Warrior: a balanced book that does as it says and offers something for most characters while focusing on the fighting types.
The Complete Divine: fails to offer much for non-divine classes and manages to expand the use and power of the turning ability far beyond the powerful but narrow definition it classically enjoyed. That it largely benefits the cleric, an already overloaded class is just salt in the wound.
The Complete Arcane: a guide for killing mages liberally spinkled with recycled content. Fun!
I'm probably being unfair since I haven't seen the work yet, but I can't help but feel that WotC falls down whenever addressing the issue of arcane casters. Maybe I should look more to 3rd party vendors, but the arcane ideas put forth in core content just always leaves a stale taste in my mouth. There's so much classic lore to draw on. I just don't understand it.
The Complete Warrior: a balanced book that does as it says and offers something for most characters while focusing on the fighting types.
The Complete Divine: fails to offer much for non-divine classes and manages to expand the use and power of the turning ability far beyond the powerful but narrow definition it classically enjoyed. That it largely benefits the cleric, an already overloaded class is just salt in the wound.
The Complete Arcane: a guide for killing mages liberally spinkled with recycled content. Fun!
I'm probably being unfair since I haven't seen the work yet, but I can't help but feel that WotC falls down whenever addressing the issue of arcane casters. Maybe I should look more to 3rd party vendors, but the arcane ideas put forth in core content just always leaves a stale taste in my mouth. There's so much classic lore to draw on. I just don't understand it.
Olive
Explorer
fafhrd said:
Given that people were extremely sceptical about CW came out, ad yet it's been plesently recieved by most, I'd wait to judge myself. CD wasn't as good, definitely, but this might still be great.
However, it doesn't seem to be advertised in the same way as CW was, as providing arcane material for ALL characters, so you might well be right.
If only I was paid for liking Wizards... it'd help my current financial situation greatly (which remains extremely poor 
).
I've got a review for Monster Manual III coming up where I'm critical of Wizards' editing - I'm indebted to John Cooper for his work in that regard. I find the book infuriating - wonderful monster designs let down by the errors in the stat blocks.
One of these days I'll get around to reviewing Map Folio I, which I consider a missed opportunity for Wizards. (If you ever want to see me in anti-Wizards rage, see me on their maps, though I think they've improved recently). I dread the day when I eventually get to see Map Folio II... somehow Wizards failed to deliver it to my FLGS. Think it's a conspiracy?
Complete Divine was a mixed bag. I think what it offered for divine casters was pretty good (much better than DotF), and it offered quite a bit to non-divine casters who wished to take a divine casting PrC or multi-class into cleric. The relics were also nifty. I really like the new Divine feats, though.
That the cleric is (possibly) overpowered - I don't see enough of them in my campaigns to make a judgement on that - is something that should be addressed in a revision of the class in 4e. However, I think the options in CD (especially the divine feats) would remain fairly much unchanged.
...and that terrible editing!... mind you, I don't really notice it that much. Practiced Spellcaster and a couple of divine feats are the most commonly used part of CD in my campaign, along with occasional reference to the deity descriptions.
Hehe! I suspect we've probably seen most of the anti-wizard stuff already in the previews; most of the book is likely to be on positively using arcane spells and abilities to blow stuff up.
The recycled content is problematic. I do urge people to read Rich Redman's Cue Rant Mode article, especially when he discusses the "...all the books..." argument.
I do know that I don't have any of the Forgotten Realms books except for the original 3e FRCS, so anything recycled from those books is something very new to me. Contrariwise, I do have the Miniatures Handbook, from which a lot of material is progressing into the Complete series. (This is probably due to Mike Donais).
With regard to arcane material recycled from 3e sources, my general impression is "Great!", because of all the groups, arcane and divine prestige classes had the most problems in 3e. You could see the designers and developers at Wizards getting more familiar with the system as they went along.
I know they hadn't thought of partial spellcasting progressions when the original Psionics Handbook was released... but partial progressions exist in Tome and Blood. (Bruce Cordell mentions this in If Thoughts Could Kill). However, as 3e progressed along, people began to realise how significant even one spellcasting level was. Losing 5 in a 10-level prestige class was normally enough to sink that class.
So, revisions of 3e prestige classes for casters are something I look forward to greatly.
The other recycled material - meh. I'm unsure of how much I use, anyway. I know how much I use the core books - a great deal. Supplements? They're there. I think my game would be diminished without them, because they provide more inspiration for my players and myself, but they're nowhere near as influential as those core rulebooks.
I do still think there'll be quite a bit of new material - and I often count seriously revised prestige classes, feats and spells as new material.
We'll see how it goes.
Cheers!
).I've got a review for Monster Manual III coming up where I'm critical of Wizards' editing - I'm indebted to John Cooper for his work in that regard. I find the book infuriating - wonderful monster designs let down by the errors in the stat blocks.
One of these days I'll get around to reviewing Map Folio I, which I consider a missed opportunity for Wizards. (If you ever want to see me in anti-Wizards rage, see me on their maps, though I think they've improved recently). I dread the day when I eventually get to see Map Folio II... somehow Wizards failed to deliver it to my FLGS. Think it's a conspiracy?
fafhrd said:
Complete Divine was a mixed bag. I think what it offered for divine casters was pretty good (much better than DotF), and it offered quite a bit to non-divine casters who wished to take a divine casting PrC or multi-class into cleric. The relics were also nifty. I really like the new Divine feats, though.
That the cleric is (possibly) overpowered - I don't see enough of them in my campaigns to make a judgement on that - is something that should be addressed in a revision of the class in 4e. However, I think the options in CD (especially the divine feats) would remain fairly much unchanged.
...and that terrible editing!... mind you, I don't really notice it that much. Practiced Spellcaster and a couple of divine feats are the most commonly used part of CD in my campaign, along with occasional reference to the deity descriptions.
fafhrd said:
Hehe! I suspect we've probably seen most of the anti-wizard stuff already in the previews; most of the book is likely to be on positively using arcane spells and abilities to blow stuff up.
The recycled content is problematic. I do urge people to read Rich Redman's Cue Rant Mode article, especially when he discusses the "...all the books..." argument.
I do know that I don't have any of the Forgotten Realms books except for the original 3e FRCS, so anything recycled from those books is something very new to me. Contrariwise, I do have the Miniatures Handbook, from which a lot of material is progressing into the Complete series. (This is probably due to Mike Donais).
With regard to arcane material recycled from 3e sources, my general impression is "Great!", because of all the groups, arcane and divine prestige classes had the most problems in 3e. You could see the designers and developers at Wizards getting more familiar with the system as they went along.
I know they hadn't thought of partial spellcasting progressions when the original Psionics Handbook was released... but partial progressions exist in Tome and Blood. (Bruce Cordell mentions this in If Thoughts Could Kill). However, as 3e progressed along, people began to realise how significant even one spellcasting level was. Losing 5 in a 10-level prestige class was normally enough to sink that class.
So, revisions of 3e prestige classes for casters are something I look forward to greatly.
The other recycled material - meh. I'm unsure of how much I use, anyway. I know how much I use the core books - a great deal. Supplements? They're there. I think my game would be diminished without them, because they provide more inspiration for my players and myself, but they're nowhere near as influential as those core rulebooks.
I do still think there'll be quite a bit of new material - and I often count seriously revised prestige classes, feats and spells as new material.
We'll see how it goes.
Cheers!
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