Complete Divine Excerpts

[Saeviomagy]

You can only cast one "cure" per spell level. If your party relies on you for cures, then you're SOL.

I think it's balanced, and I don't see my sorceror picking it up.

If you already have a divine caster in your party, it's not worth it. If you don't have a divine caster, then as I said, those cures will get used too quick to last 2 or 3 rooms in a dungeon.

I really don't think that the healing domain is the best target for this feat. Nor do I think that wizards and sorcerors are likely to take it (alright - I can see the possibilities of having a wizard take it with the healing domain, but not a sorceror).

I CAN see a bard taking it to get a domain which complements the character - current bards are heavily limited in choice - mostly to trickery spells. Adding the destructive power of fire, evil-smiting of good, teleporting of travel or the buffing of strength can really change the flavour of a bard, and give a neat power boost.

Oh, and I can also see wizards taking it and then using lots of pearls of power.

 

[Vocenoctum]

Arcane Disciple has done away with one of the D&D sacred cows: we now can have arcane healers (just take Healing as the domain)! Yay!

Bards ARE Arcane

 

[jsaving]

I don't see that happening for the simple reason that bards can only cast 6th level spells, robbing them of 1/3 of the benefit of the feat. Also bards already have a fair assortment of attack spells and healing spells, plus the best knowledge-gathering skills in the game, leaving them no real niche they need to fill out as far as casting is concerned. (Except possibly direct damage spells like fireball, but direct damage spells are the one thing you don't want to cast in this way because your DCs won't be very good.) And finally, most bards are already quite good at "use magic device," so the extra item-using aspect of this feat would be wasted on them.

In my opinion sorcerers are the most obvious people to take this feat because they can then pick up 1 known "cure" spell and then scale it as needed on-the-fly with metamagic feats such as empower spell. It's a tougher call for wizards since they're denying themselves a fireball or magic missile to memorize what others in the party should already be able to handle. Then again, the prereqs will be much easier to meet for a wizard, so perhaps wizards would only be slightly less likely to take the feat.

Is it an absolute no-brainer to take this feat if you know you'll usually/always be adventuring with other people who have plenty of healing power? No. But being able to cast even a single 'heal' each day is a nice asset even in those cases, and for characters who don't necessarily know they'll always be with healers, it could be a welcome boost indeed.

 

[Olive]

True Believer is thematically like the feats Servant of the Heavens, Favored of the Companions, and, uh, the other one from Book of Exalted Deeds: crappy feats whose only purpose is to enable a PrC. I hate feats like that. But at least (Pious) Templars no longer have to take Endurance.

Remember of course that part of the design philosophy behind balancing PrCs is forcing players to take feats they wouldn't otherwise take. And this makes sense to me, plus a feat represents a significant cost to a character, and something like true believer, thrall to demon or favoured of the companions are ripe with roleplaying possibilities as the character gets initiated into the religion/cult.

I think that's cool!

 

[Snarf]

arcane disciple

...At least at first glance, it's difficult to see why *any* wizard or sorcerer wouldn't spend a feat to get access to 'cure' spells, even if the spells don't automatically jump into their spellbook or list of known spells...

Choice of the healing domain is even more powerful at higher levels, as Heal can correct a large number of bad conditions (more so in 3.5 than 3.0) in addition of course to restoring mass amounts of HP.

I hate to be the one to bring it up but the Luck domain gets Miracle at 9th level, which can be used to replicate any 8th level or lower cleric spell, or any 7th level or lower arcane spell, for no XP cost. That certainly expands your arcane spellcaster's repertoire, once a day anyway.

(And yes, any experienced DM interested in a realistic and balanced world wouldn't let his players use Mircale like a once-a-day pick-a-power coupon, but not all DMs are that good are they?)

 

[Michael Tree]

I CAN see a bard taking it to get a domain which complements the character - current bards are heavily limited in choice - mostly to trickery spells. Adding the destructive power of fire, evil-smiting of good, teleporting of travel or the buffing of strength can really change the flavour of a bard, and give a neat power boost.

I could easily see a bard taking it for the War domain, to get Greater Magic Weapon, which bards no longer get in 3.5, Flame Strike, and Divine Power. Divine power's boost to fighter BAB and +6 strength up to 3 times per day (cast it as 4th, 5th, and 6th level) alone could be worth a feat. I could see an eldritch knight or arcane trickster taking the war domain for similar reasons. The boost from wizard BAB to fighter BAB 6 times per day is very useful for ranged sneak attacks.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I agree with the Bard thing; it means they can keep a lower wisdom....

in general, the feat is pretty useless. It's such an investment of effort to get that Miracle, in ability scores, feat, and magic, that they can be my guest. It's not going to overpower anything, because the very best the feat can be, it's still going to pale in comparison to a regular cleric doing the same thing.

 

[Li Shenron]

I hate to be the one to bring it up but the Luck domain gets Miracle at 9th level, which can be used to replicate any 8th level or lower cleric spell, or any 7th level or lower arcane spell, for no XP cost. That certainly expands your arcane spellcaster's repertoire, once a day anyway.

(And yes, any experienced DM interested in a realistic and balanced world wouldn't let his players use Mircale like a once-a-day pick-a-power coupon, but not all DMs are that good are they?)

That's an excellent point Snarf!

The final revenge of Wizards against Clerics, I would say. Even tastier since the feat is coming from the clerics' classbook

I am a (not so much) experienced DM interested in a realistic and balanced world, and for this reason I always put any use of Miracle under my own adjudication. Someone has to explain to me why a cleric should be able to replicate wizards spells up to lv7 for free, while a wizard is only able to replicate clerics spells up to lv6 for 5000Xp .

However, the wizard still have to (1) be 17th level, (2) have Wis 19, (3) take the feat, (4) choose the Luck domain and (5) learn the spell. If a wizard IMC wants to do that, I'd simply adjudicate his own Miracle in the way I adjudicate it for the clerics, i.e. against the deity's will.

 

[Olive]

The final revenge of Wizards against Clerics, I would say. Even tastier since the feat is coming from the clerics' classbook

It's not really a clerics class book, at least if it's anything like CW. Heaps of the stuff in CW was for non-fighters (warshaper etc), and many of the feats were for paladins, clerics etc.

Similarly, of the stuff we've seen so far, the PrC is better suited for non-clerics, several fot he feats are suited to wizards etc.

They're all religious stuff, but the idea is to give religion to everyone, not just to clerics.

 

[the Jester]

Anyone heard an actual date on CD yet? I'm excited to see it.