Complete Divine: Feats & Spells

[Kalendraf]

Please try to keep this thread on topic. I am specifically interested in hearing about any potential issues regarding just the Feats and Spells in Complete Divine. I have no interest in the prestige classes at this point.

Thus far, it appears the ruling on the WotC page addresses the problems with Divine Metamagic feat and the Miasma saving throw. But they also seem to indicate a formal errata will be coming out, likely including other changes as well. Does anyone have any inkling about what type of changes might be in store for the Feats and Spells?

 

[Joshua Randall]

For an official ruling, you're going to have to wait for the WotC errata.

In the mean time, for spells, you might check out the old 3.0 FAQs for General and Defenders of the Faith, as that's where most of the Complete Divine contents came from.

For feats, I think that aside from Divine Metamagic, the others are fine. My campaigns have seen a lot of use of Divine Vigor and Divine Might, both of which are powerful but not broken.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Feats:

Even restricted to characters who have the metamagic feat in question, I don't like Divine Metamagic. Quickening 9th level spells with Divine Metamagic: Quicken or empowering spells of your maximum castable level is a potentially overpowering ability. If it were limited to spells that you could normally use the metamagic feat on (ie, you need to cast 7th level spells to empower a 5th level spell and 9th level spells to quicken a 5th level spell), I would see it as balanced. As it is, it's problematic.

The rest of the feats seem alright.

Prestige classes: Ur-Priest has a lot of abilities that are potentially overpowering. It makes a good NPC class as it's written provided the DM doesn't do anything too cheesy. For a PC class, however, the possibilities are endless. Simply being able to steal spell-like abilities like Wish is potentially game-breaking no matter how many or few levels it takes to take the class.

Spells: Cometfall and Quill Blast are clearly problematic. Miasma is still a bad idea unless you give it the fort negates save like the authors suggested on the WotC boards. Nature's Favor is WAY over the top too. (With the number of broken druid spells and abilities coming out of WotC these days, one wonders if anyone up there actually plays druids). Most of the others are fine. Briar Web's newest incarnation seems reasonably balanced. The vigor spells are interesting but not overpowering unless you're REALLY bothered by the possibility that a party of PCs who almost exclusively uses wands for healing might save 1500 gold over three-four levels vis a vis wands of CLW. (And the time required to heal with vigor vis a vis CLW will often mean that minute/level buffs run out rather than still being active in the next one or two encounters).

 

[Kalendraf]

Thanks Elder-Basilisk! That is exactly the type of feedback I was looking for.

I was considering house-ruling Divine Metamagic that way, so it's good to see someone else one the same wavelength. I'll need to re-read Cometfall, Quillblast and Nature's Favor. I agree that it seems like the druid spells are getting a bit out of hand. I have a druid in my group and he rips things up with his elemental spells.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Even restricted to characters who have the metamagic feat in question, I don't like Divine Metamagic. Quickening 9th level spells with Divine Metamagic: Quicken or empowering spells of your maximum castable level is a potentially overpowering ability.

No kidding. WotC only messed this up seven times. They even fixed it once only to screw it up again (3.0 incantatrix). Someday they'll get it right - probably when 4e is released.

 

[Crothian]

Nature's Favor really isn't that bad at all. It makes the animal campaion more of a threat but at higher levels the animal needs it.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

My experience is that dire bear animal companions don't really need much help beyond Mage Armor and maybe barkskin. However, it's shortsighted to think that Nature's Favor will only effect an animal companion. It will also see extensive use by wildshaped druids (especially wildshaped druids sharing the spell with their animal companion). If it were just a druid version of Divine Favor I suppose it would be OK. However, it's not. It scales faster and maxes out twice as high. And, of course, it stacks with Animal Growth.

My games really don't need animal companions with attack and damage bonusses comparable to dragons. Do yours?

Nature's Favor really isn't that bad at all. It makes the animal campaion more of a threat but at higher levels the animal needs it.

 

[Crothian]

I didn't think a whildshaped Druid took on the animal type.

but either way, its just attack and damage rolls. and a +10 to both at 20th level is not that impressive.

 

[glass]

I didn't think a whildshaped Druid took on the animal type.

It depends on whether you interpret the line in the MM about things with Int above 3 being Magical Beasts rather than Animals as a guideline or a rule.

I consider it a rule, as that avoids a lot of druid related problems (like the awaken exploit, for one).


glass.

 

[Teneb]

I have a druid in my group and he rips things up with his elemental spells.

Why thank you, I'll take that as a compliment. I'm always looking for more yummy druid-spell goodness. Can't wait to take a look at this book tonight Kal Perhaps Porkchop the mighty boar animal companion will make a return appearance