Twiggly the Gnome
Legend
I think that the Deep and Sundered dwarves are genericized versions of the Taladas dwarf cultures from Time of the Dragon.
D&D 2E [COMPLETE] Looking back at the leatherette series: PHBR, DMGR, HR and more!
- Thread starter Alzrius
- Start date
Alzrius
The EN World kitten
I knew that they'd been detailed before, it just felt like an oversight that a book that covered dwarves so thoroughly wouldn't mention any of D&D's "generic" dwarven pantheon (I say "generic" as opposed to gods like Dragonlance's Reorx, who are campaign-specific).
Weiley31
Legend
3E, via Dreamscarred and DND Psionics books, were probably the best version of Psionics.
*5E's approach: as shown via the UA that had the Psi-Knight, 2020 Soul Knife, and Aberrant Mind, seemed to be a very well done take for 5E Psionics. The idea of the Wild Talent being separate from your class level, with each class getting Talents specific for those classes, seemed completely perfect. And it was a nice shout out to how Psionics developed alongside your class level.
But with people not being onboard with that idea OR the Psi-Talent Die(despite it's questionable change in the eyes of D20 mechanics) Not being well received (which is another talk for another time) kinda put a dampen on everything.
The "Psionics" in 5E now, via Tasha's Psi Warrior(Knight is better), Soul Knife, and Aberrant Mind, seem like they wanted A: Shut everybody asking for Psionics up and B: Testing the waters to see how people like em anyway regardless.*
Orius
Legend
Dwarves isn't too bad, or at least it's always favorably compared to Elves. D&D has always had decent coverage of dwarves, and you know what you're going to get with dwarves anyway ; short, sturdy creatures fond of drink and industry. I've always liked this one, it's dwarves, and plenty of Larry Elmore's art.
Some of the material was recycled from 1e's Dungeoneer's Survival Guide, particularly the NWPs and the mining rules.
Some of the material was recycled from 1e's Dungeoneer's Survival Guide, particularly the NWPs and the mining rules.
Alzrius
The EN World kitten
So now we come to PHBR7 The Complete Bard's Handbook...and I'm already confused. The book's storefront says this is PHBR7, but the code in the upper-left corner of the cover says it's PHBR8, and the book's interior (pg. 5-6) says it's PHBR6. So...is the storefront listing some sort of compromise? Or is this an object lesson in how bards are natural hoodwinkers? Is "hoodwinkers" even a word? I just don't know what's going on!
So anyway, bards...D&D's own red mages. These guys are kind of good at a whole bunch of stuff, but not outstanding in anything, which makes them a perennial second choice. That doesn't sound so bad, until you remember that the archetypal D&D party is made up of four classes that have their respective niches covered, and that all too often there's no need for a second-stringer, which I imagine must cause the bard some pathos. But at least they can sing a catchy tune about their discontent, since that's the one thing that no one exceeds them at! Take it away, boys!
But getting back to this book in particular, I didn't give it much of a look back in the day, my younger self already having internalized the idea that the pantyhose-wearing lute-strummer wasn't worthy of respect, and so this book needed to be mined for its new spells and magic items and then returned to the shelf. Which is exactly what I did. And in hindsight, that was a grievous mistake, for one very simple reason:
This book is awesome!
I really can't overstate how much I've come to like this book since I sat down to reread it. The sheer creativity and usefulness that it brings to the table, both proverbially and literally, cannot be overstated. This just might be the single best volume out of the Player's Handbook Resource series, I kid you not.
The book's first chapter essentially reprints what's in the PHB, albeit expanding things like the thieving skill adjustment tables for the various kits we'll see later, and this is something I found myself approving of. I know a lot of people consider it a waste of space, since you're going to have the PHB right there with you anyway, but I like to reduce page-flipping, so I thought it was a good thing. But it's the next chapter, where the kits come in, that we start to see the real genius of the book.
The kits here aren't like any kits that I remember from elsewhere in AD&D 2E. Whereas your standard kit is essentially a mini-template, adding some small bonuses in exchange for some equally small penalties and a few guidelines on how to role-play whatever thematic adjustment(s) it connotes, these kits are something different. They're all essentially 5E-style subclasses (or Pathfinder-style archetypes, as you prefer), swapping out features of the basic bard for a new suite of abilities. It standardizes this by having the "true bard" kit that represents your bog-standard bard, and then essentially tells you to remove that kit in favor of one of the new ones listed then.
The subsequent kits therefore bring much heavier alterations to your character than most other kits would. I kit you not (see what I did there?), these are like what specialty priests did to clerics for the changes they bring. You still use the same THAC0, saving throw, and experience tables, and the same size Hit Dice, but anything else (e.g. allowable weapons, class features, proficiencies) are up for being altered, sometimes drastically. It's impressive how much creative space this opens up.
Speaking of opening up creative space, we then come to the chapter on "demi-bards." Here, the author basically says, "remember how the PHB says that only humans or half-elves can be bards? Yeah, not so much anymore." Furthermore, he doesn't stop there; he not only recommends that demi-human bards be limited to certain kits, he actually provides four new kits that are specific to demihumans; one for dwarves, one for elves, one for gnomes, and one for halflings. That essentially means that each race's bards will be unique to them, which is outstanding.
While the new proficiencies didn't do much for me on their own (Proficiency in chanting? Poetry? Whistling/humming?), and the sections of modifiers for the thieving skills felt like an awkward intrusion into The Complete Thief's Handbook (though it was still nicely comprehensive), the spells and magic items were useful, if a bit brief.
But then we come to the music chapter, and my complaints once again fall away. We get an expansive list of instruments that not only gives us their cost, weight, and a brief description, but also codifies them to particular historical eras (helping with thematic cohesion) and gives illustrations! It then gives a brief primer on types of music (i.e. terms and definitions), types of songs, and even a few sample songs as well. Hm, do you ever suppose a bard might be able to use "The Minstrel Boy" to defuse a violent encounter?
And there's still more! The chapter on role-playing bards has handy tables for things like reputation and performance-based income (which will never be a lot, but at least categorizes the return you get), while the following chapter on bardic associations has rules for patrons and followers, both of which are very useful. Finally, the appendix has...the AD&D 1E rules for bards? I'm...not sure why those are here; this is the bard from the AD&D 1st Edition Player's Handbook, which goes from being a thief to being a fighter to being a druid, at which point they gain bardic abilities to boot. I'm not sure why that's being reprinted here (even if it wouldn't be that hard to reproduce in 2E); maybe it's to make sure we all have an appropriate appreciation for just how trippy that was?
Either way, this is an excellent sourcebook for bard characters, to the point where I'd call it mandatory for anyone who wants to play one in Second Edition.
Please note my use of affiliate links in this post.
So anyway, bards...D&D's own red mages. These guys are kind of good at a whole bunch of stuff, but not outstanding in anything, which makes them a perennial second choice. That doesn't sound so bad, until you remember that the archetypal D&D party is made up of four classes that have their respective niches covered, and that all too often there's no need for a second-stringer, which I imagine must cause the bard some pathos. But at least they can sing a catchy tune about their discontent, since that's the one thing that no one exceeds them at! Take it away, boys!
But getting back to this book in particular, I didn't give it much of a look back in the day, my younger self already having internalized the idea that the pantyhose-wearing lute-strummer wasn't worthy of respect, and so this book needed to be mined for its new spells and magic items and then returned to the shelf. Which is exactly what I did. And in hindsight, that was a grievous mistake, for one very simple reason:
This book is awesome!
I really can't overstate how much I've come to like this book since I sat down to reread it. The sheer creativity and usefulness that it brings to the table, both proverbially and literally, cannot be overstated. This just might be the single best volume out of the Player's Handbook Resource series, I kid you not.
The book's first chapter essentially reprints what's in the PHB, albeit expanding things like the thieving skill adjustment tables for the various kits we'll see later, and this is something I found myself approving of. I know a lot of people consider it a waste of space, since you're going to have the PHB right there with you anyway, but I like to reduce page-flipping, so I thought it was a good thing. But it's the next chapter, where the kits come in, that we start to see the real genius of the book.
The kits here aren't like any kits that I remember from elsewhere in AD&D 2E. Whereas your standard kit is essentially a mini-template, adding some small bonuses in exchange for some equally small penalties and a few guidelines on how to role-play whatever thematic adjustment(s) it connotes, these kits are something different. They're all essentially 5E-style subclasses (or Pathfinder-style archetypes, as you prefer), swapping out features of the basic bard for a new suite of abilities. It standardizes this by having the "true bard" kit that represents your bog-standard bard, and then essentially tells you to remove that kit in favor of one of the new ones listed then.
The subsequent kits therefore bring much heavier alterations to your character than most other kits would. I kit you not (see what I did there?), these are like what specialty priests did to clerics for the changes they bring. You still use the same THAC0, saving throw, and experience tables, and the same size Hit Dice, but anything else (e.g. allowable weapons, class features, proficiencies) are up for being altered, sometimes drastically. It's impressive how much creative space this opens up.
Speaking of opening up creative space, we then come to the chapter on "demi-bards." Here, the author basically says, "remember how the PHB says that only humans or half-elves can be bards? Yeah, not so much anymore." Furthermore, he doesn't stop there; he not only recommends that demi-human bards be limited to certain kits, he actually provides four new kits that are specific to demihumans; one for dwarves, one for elves, one for gnomes, and one for halflings. That essentially means that each race's bards will be unique to them, which is outstanding.
While the new proficiencies didn't do much for me on their own (Proficiency in chanting? Poetry? Whistling/humming?), and the sections of modifiers for the thieving skills felt like an awkward intrusion into The Complete Thief's Handbook (though it was still nicely comprehensive), the spells and magic items were useful, if a bit brief.
But then we come to the music chapter, and my complaints once again fall away. We get an expansive list of instruments that not only gives us their cost, weight, and a brief description, but also codifies them to particular historical eras (helping with thematic cohesion) and gives illustrations! It then gives a brief primer on types of music (i.e. terms and definitions), types of songs, and even a few sample songs as well. Hm, do you ever suppose a bard might be able to use "The Minstrel Boy" to defuse a violent encounter?
And there's still more! The chapter on role-playing bards has handy tables for things like reputation and performance-based income (which will never be a lot, but at least categorizes the return you get), while the following chapter on bardic associations has rules for patrons and followers, both of which are very useful. Finally, the appendix has...the AD&D 1E rules for bards? I'm...not sure why those are here; this is the bard from the AD&D 1st Edition Player's Handbook, which goes from being a thief to being a fighter to being a druid, at which point they gain bardic abilities to boot. I'm not sure why that's being reprinted here (even if it wouldn't be that hard to reproduce in 2E); maybe it's to make sure we all have an appropriate appreciation for just how trippy that was?
Either way, this is an excellent sourcebook for bard characters, to the point where I'd call it mandatory for anyone who wants to play one in Second Edition.
Please note my use of affiliate links in this post.
Last edited:
cbwjm
Seb-wejem
The 2e complete bard's book was another of the complete handbooks I actually managed to buy a physical copy of (I have wizard, psionics, ninja, bard, and elf) and I thought it was really neat, the kits really helped differentiate the bard, though I only recall the blade. I think this book also made me realise just how sinister a bard could be rather than the flamboyant bard that everyone thinks of. I think the description of the blade had a story about an assassin or blackmailer breaking in to someone's home and casting sound bubble (the only spell I recall from the book) so that they can talk but others can't hear them. It was pretty cool.
cbwjm
Seb-wejem
Been reading through these old books again because of this thread (at least the few I have from dmsguild) and I'd forgotten how restrictive they could be for multiclass characters choosing kits. Instead of choosing one, you can pick up the skills (rather than getting them as bonus skills). You might still have the hindrances for identifying as them but you get none of the bonuses. I don't recall it coming up but I kinda feel like in that instance they could just pick a kit and run with it rather than jumping through hoops.
Similar Threads
Split the Hoard
Split the Hoard
Negotiate, demand, or steal the loot you desire!
A competitive card game for 2-5 players