complete mage: fey feats way powerful?

[brehobit]

Well, unfortuantely our experiences are divergent. I disagree. By the time a character is 9th level I (as a DM) should be able to deal with a 1/day dimension door and a 1/day summon monster and a 1/day confusion. Besides, if they are expended out of combat then they aren't available in combat. By ninth level (which is the level the OP was asking about) I don't see the issue. it is three moments in the daily life of the character. As a DM, its no big deal. I'll plan accordingly.

I'm actually a bit more worried about if this lets a fighter-type move too far into a caster's area. If the 9th level fighter can cast 2 4th level spells and 1 5th and the 9th level wizard can (say) throw 3 4th level spells and 2 5th, isn't the wizard feeling a bit useless?

My more important question that has yet to be answered is: what is the warlock poor at that can be used to challenge him. That is by far the more important and interesting question when planning an adventure.

I agree. I'm not worried about chalanging the warlock, I'm worried about being sure noone feels useless and everyone has fun....

Mark

 

[pawsplay]

What's the caster level on those SLAs? Because I think someone just invented the Fighter magic item crafter.

 

[Thanee]

My more important question that has yet to be answered is: what is the warlock poor at that can be used to challenge him. That is by far the more important and interesting question when planning an adventure.

Warlocks are really bad in a grapple.

Guess that's why your warlock wanted the Dimension Door SLA (though Sudden Still and Flee the Scene also work).

Bye
Thanee

 

[brehobit]

What's the caster level on those SLAs? Because I think someone just invented the Fighter magic item crafter.

Character level.... So maybe yes, for a narrow bit of items....

Mark

 

[Kishin]

Does any other feat grant so many spells? The closest I've seen are the dragonmarks in Eberron. Those can get very powerful (3 feats at 9th level can yield 3 1st, 3 3rd and 1 6th). But this is darn close and frankly the spells are a lot better than most of the dragonmarks. Plus you get the +3 save bonus (minor but nice) and the 3/cold iron DR. Pretty sweet.

Outside of Eberron I think the best you could get is a 1st level spell and 2 cantrips or a 2nd level spell....

Mark

Dragonmarks are very far from powerful, considering the fixed caster levels and the spells they involve. You're also adjudicating them wrong. You don't end up with 3 1st level spells, 3 3rd and 1 6th. You choose one spell effect for the mark when multiple effects are listed. So you have one 1 1st, 1 3rd, 1 6th. Read page 63 of the ECS again.

As far as the fey feats go, I'm inclined to agree with the idea that 1/day uses of those abilities do not gamebreakers make, especially when it takes two feats to gain access to them.

 

[Endur]

OK,
The by 9th level character with the feats "fey heritage" "fey skin" and "fey legacy" gets
the following:
+3 on saves vs. enchantments
DR 3/cold iron (stacks with warlock DR)
cast confusion, diminsion door and summon nature's ally V all as spell-like abilities each 1/day.

The feats are way better than dodge or toughness.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

I suppose the 9th level wizard might feel a bit "stepped upon." But then again, the thing about the wizard is their versatility. The character that gets these by way of feats does not have versatility. So - plan events in the campaign that require a wizard's versatility to solve! Again, I certainly understand the concern. But this is not a big problem that should have a DM worried. Cautious, understandably. But worried? Nope.

Besides. By 11th level the wizard will have forgotten all about it. The wizard gets more powerful spells. The other guy still has a feat spent. [Valuably, mind you.]

 

[brehobit]

Dragonmarks are very far from powerful, considering the fixed caster levels and the spells they involve. You're also adjudicating them wrong. You don't end up with 3 1st level spells, 3 3rd and 1 6th. You choose one spell effect for the mark when multiple effects are listed. So you have one 1 1st, 1 3rd, 1 6th. Read page 63 of the ECS again.

Actually, I'll call your page 63 and raise you a page 54

The greater dragonmark allows you to use "your least and lesser dragonmarks one additional time per day". The lesser dragonmark has similar text. So you get to use the _same_ lesser and least dragonmark, but you can use it more than once a day. By the time you get a greater mark you can use your least 3/day, lesser 2/day and greater 1/day.

As far as the fey feats go, I'm inclined to agree with the idea that 1/day uses of those abilities do not gamebreakers make, especially when it takes two feats to gain access to them.

Yeah. It seems most agree with that. I still think the DR and spells are amoung the most powerful feats I've ever seen (the most powerful perhaps). But I seem to be in a minority...

Mark

 

[Victim]

The feats are way better than dodge or toughness.

The first one is roughly equivalent to Iron Will. But IMHO, that's better than (RAW) Dodge or Toughness too.

 

[Felix]

The feats are way better than dodge or toughness.

Except that Dodge leads to the very nice Spring Attack.

Toughness, yes; I agree. That one's only good to mitigate the power of a strong PrC.

The first one is roughly equivalent to Iron Will.

But then there are quite a few deadly Will save spells that arn't from the Enchantment school. Iron Will, however, is not a gateway feat, and so doesn't allow you access to more powerful feats, the way Fey Heritage does. I'd say it's a wash; it depends on what your character wants out of the feat.

---

I think these feats are being looked at from a slightly skewed perspective. While I think having those three feats by 9th level gives you some nice benefits, unless you have feats coming from other sources, you may very well only have one feat left over. This means that you sacrifice a great deal for 3 SLAs (though nice, they arn't overpowering), DR 3/CI, and a bonus vs Enchantments. Shoot, gnomes get +2 v Illusions naturally, and that isn't too upsetting to folks.

These feats are nice things to have by 15th and 18th level, once you already have your base feats all lined up. If you're a fighter, you have your Power Attack and Weapon Focus chains finished. So you go in for some Dimension Dooring. If you're a wizard, you have all the metamagic and Item creation you want, and a +3 v Enchantments is very attractive for you. If you're a bard, you have all your... bard... feats?... taken by that point, or something, and you take these for flavor.

And at that point in the game, these abilities are good for flavor and versatility. If you sprint towards having them by 9th level, I think your character will not be overpowered by virtue of not having spent those feats on less sexy feats that give a steady bonus for the entire life of the character.

I'd allow them.