Complete Warrior base classes
- Thread starter mfrench
- Start date
Psion said:
That's a reasonable assessment. I don't think the swashbuckler is particularly outstanding at any party role, nor does it have any attractive core feature like rage or smite or sneak attack. Just a hodgepodge of junk. But it's neither extremely weak or powerful, so allowing it won't hurt anybody.
Victim said:
Also a reasonable assessment. Without an attractive core feature that improves as the class progresses, it's a class that's easy to abandon.
Generally speaking, the design team were out to lunch on the CW classes. Rest of the book is cool though.
The Samurai blows, of course; the Hexblade's fine (but doesn't really fit my setting); as for the Swashbuckler, I "like" it, but it is weak... I don't know what I'll do to change it in my setting, but I'm thinking some or all of: good reflex saves; if good reflex saves, then change the grace bonuses to initiative bonuses; doubling the dodge bonuses; swapping uncanny dodge for improved flanking (seriously, barbarians get uncanny dodge, and swashbucklers don't?) Hmmm...
Or you know what. Bonus dice that apply when the swashbuckler scores a crit, like sneak attack + PHB II's Telling Blow. But that's an easier adjustment to make to the Unfettered. Hmmm.
Or you know what. Bonus dice that apply when the swashbuckler scores a crit, like sneak attack + PHB II's Telling Blow. But that's an easier adjustment to make to the Unfettered. Hmmm.
EyeontheMountain
First Post
Well, looks like I will have to come out as a supporter of the samurai hate parade. Only comment, way too limied as a base class.
I ahve never really liked the hexblade as they are too dependent on thier opponents failing saves, and -4 is not a huge advantage even if they do fail the save. Plus if the opponent dies, there goes that use for the whole day.
The swashbuckler is not bad at all, but too many twink it and only jump in for a few levels. In a more multi-class restricted game, I think it is very strong.
I ahve never really liked the hexblade as they are too dependent on thier opponents failing saves, and -4 is not a huge advantage even if they do fail the save. Plus if the opponent dies, there goes that use for the whole day.
The swashbuckler is not bad at all, but too many twink it and only jump in for a few levels. In a more multi-class restricted game, I think it is very strong.
Kobold Avenger
Legend
One thing I see about the Swashbuckler as written, is that almost everyone who takes it, would probably want to become a Duelist as quickly as possible. Since Swashbuckler 3+/ Duelist works really well when you have canny defense, insightful strike and precise strike. In fact being a duelist might be the only reason why you'd want to be a swashbuckler for any level past 3, when you get all 10 levels of duelist, though honestly past 3rd you could probably be better off with just fighter...
Swashbuckler 3 might be better than fighter 3 with the Eldritch Knight PrC if you're a wizard and want to emphasize on spellcasting, but have a little extra fighting ability.
It's also been mentioned that Swashbuckler 3/ Lurk X from complete psionic works really good, since the lurks powers, augments, sneak attack and the ability to add Int to initiative work good with the swashbucklers abilities.
The Hexblade feats in Dragon Magazine do make the Hexblade a little more interesting to take, and Dark Companion is definately better than a familiar.
Swashbuckler 3 might be better than fighter 3 with the Eldritch Knight PrC if you're a wizard and want to emphasize on spellcasting, but have a little extra fighting ability.
It's also been mentioned that Swashbuckler 3/ Lurk X from complete psionic works really good, since the lurks powers, augments, sneak attack and the ability to add Int to initiative work good with the swashbucklers abilities.
The Hexblade feats in Dragon Magazine do make the Hexblade a little more interesting to take, and Dark Companion is definately better than a familiar.
Hexblade is great, and I have personally played it several times, and I have it in a gestalt character I'm playing right now. Its not powerful by itself, but the curse is lovely, and it has some really nice abilities.
Samurai is terrible. Its a base class designed to dual wield Katana/Wakizashi. Wow, Ranger exists already, hello. Terrible Terrible class.
Swashbuckler is a light fighter, and thus, it isnt good. But its ok for what it is, and like all the above people, if you combo it with rogue, it isnt so bad. Still, its a 3 level dip only for sure. Also on the subject of Swashbuckler, I can't understand why it doesnt get good fort + good reflex. It isnt like its more powerful than Ranger.
Samurai is terrible. Its a base class designed to dual wield Katana/Wakizashi. Wow, Ranger exists already, hello. Terrible Terrible class.
Swashbuckler is a light fighter, and thus, it isnt good. But its ok for what it is, and like all the above people, if you combo it with rogue, it isnt so bad. Still, its a 3 level dip only for sure. Also on the subject of Swashbuckler, I can't understand why it doesnt get good fort + good reflex. It isnt like its more powerful than Ranger.
Aus_Snow
First Post
Samurai: This version is just so very *wrong*. No hope of it seeing play in any game that I (or anyone I know offline.. or hey, online too) will ever run.
Hexblade: Maybe OK, though possibly a tad underpowered. . . (?) . . .but I'm unconvinced, either way. It just doesn't grab me. So, no go.
Swashbuckler: Badly designed, and absolutely *nothing* like a swashbuckler, if game mechanics should support 'fluff' to any degree at all. Not CW Samurai bad, but yeah, bad. Will never see play (.. as above).
Some other parts of the book, I like. Not the base classes, so much.
Hexblade: Maybe OK, though possibly a tad underpowered. . . (?) . . .but I'm unconvinced, either way. It just doesn't grab me. So, no go.
Swashbuckler: Badly designed, and absolutely *nothing* like a swashbuckler, if game mechanics should support 'fluff' to any degree at all. Not CW Samurai bad, but yeah, bad. Will never see play (.. as above).
Some other parts of the book, I like. Not the base classes, so much.
Joshua Randall
Legend
I played a Hexblade once and found him too much of a one-trick pony. If you can't use the Hexblade's Curse, you're just a weaker fighter.
Constructs and undead = Hexblade bad.
Constructs and undead = Hexblade bad.
Kanegrundar
Explorer
The Hexblade is alright. Like Joshua says above, they are weak against undead and constructs, but not to the point where they are useless.
The Samurai was a big step backward compared to what we saw in OA. I prefer the Samurai class in Legends of the Samurai by RPGObjects better than any version put out so far.
The Swashbuckler is OK, but isn't really worth taking levels in for the long haul. I like AE's Unfettered a lot more.
The Samurai was a big step backward compared to what we saw in OA. I prefer the Samurai class in Legends of the Samurai by RPGObjects better than any version put out so far.
The Swashbuckler is OK, but isn't really worth taking levels in for the long haul. I like AE's Unfettered a lot more.
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