[Complexity] Rate the Core Classes

[Rashak Mani]

You should rate the complexity of building the character as well as running the character. Druid's definetely are complicated in medium to higher levels where you have a lot of choices.

As for going for a simpler D&D... nah... it means taking away choices. More choice is always better if the DM controls things.

Just maybe your worried about game balance more than complexity ?

 

[FireLance]

Thanks for all the input so far. Perhaps I can try to get a better handle on what I'm thinking about when I use the term "complexity". The basic idea is that some elements of D&D ought to come with a warning label: if you're new to D&D (or you're a new DM), you might want to ignore this option for now because there are potential pitfalls. It's not just a question of balance between classes, but that does come into the picture. An ineffectively played bard, or a ranger that never gets to encounter his favored enemy may not be enjoying the game as result.

Here's another attempt at trying to break down complexity, after taking in some of the comments above:

1. Complexity of character creation/advancement
- Number of choices during character creation/advancement
- Long-term significance of poor choices at character creation/advancement

2. Complexity of class in play
- Number of choices during play (passive or active class features, number of active class features)
- Need for special tactics to play effectively
- Need for special tactics to optimize effectiveness

3. Complexity of DMing
- Need for special attention to make class ability effective
- Potential to lose class abilities

 

[Liminal Syzygy]

After wrestling with the math to maximize damage output with power attack I would rate high-level fighters and barbarians with that feat at the high end of the scale.

 

[Saeviomagy]

After wrestling with the math to maximize damage output with power attack I would rate high-level fighters and barbarians with that feat at the high end of the scale.

Only if you do that. If you use a fuzzy closed loop control system (ie - "hey - I hit these guys easy - I might use some power attack") then even power attack is a simple feat.

 

[AuraSeer]

Everyone in my group rates prepared spellcasters (wizards, clerics, and druids) as the most complex. Figuring out which spells to prepare for the coming day involves a lot of hard decisions, especially with the option of applying metamagic feats. It gets even worse for players who don't have the spell list memorized, because they could potentially have to read the description of every single available spell before finding the one that's most appropriate for a given slot.

They also seem to be the hardest to play, again because players need to be very familiar with all the spells' effects. Spontaneous casters at least use the same spells all the time, so a player will quickly learn those by heart, but a prepared caster might never use the same spell two sessions in a row.

 

[Shadowdweller]

I'd use more or less the exact same values as Li Shenron, which is (once again):

Barbarian: 1
Fighter: 1
Paladin: 1
Monk: 2
Cleric: 2
Ranger: 2
Rogue: 3
Bard: 3
Wizard: 4

With the exception of druids and sorcerors. IMO, druids rate a 3 because of the record-keeping required for animal companions, wildshape, and various abilities. Rolewise, I find the druid suitable for a wide range of animist, elementalist, or shamanic-type religions.

I've always found sorcerors fairly straightforward, even with calculations regarding spell choice and planning over levels. Still, that's enough to bump them up to a 2.

 

[Li Shenron]

I'd use more or less the exact same values as Li Shenron, which is (once again):


With the exception of druids and sorcerors. IMO, druids rate a 3 because of the record-keeping required for animal companions, wildshape, and various abilities.

In fact I was quite doubtful about my own rate for the Druid

They are in fact quite gifted with many powers to keep track of, you should remember lots of spells (whose choice is less straightforward than clerics), advance the companion, and keep records of which creatures you can wildshape into.

However they have everything fixed by level, so they require no care in advancement (beside skills and feats, as everyone else). And also, combat-wise the tactical problems kind of ends up being: should I cast spells or wildshape?

I could have rated it 3 as well, but I didn't think it was as difficult as a Bard or a Sorcerer however...