Computers beat up my role player

[Col_Pladoh]

A Google search for MMO gives 15,800,000 hits. For MMORPG it's 29,700,000.

Whoo-hoo!


Gary

 

[Gentlegamer]

Let's posit an MMO where all sentient beings are actually player characters, with only animals, golems and similar sorts of entities controlled by the computer. The environment can change from time to time due to player action for example houses can be built or dungeons opened that were previously closed. The game has a good physics engine so objects can be moved around and damaged, PCs can jump and swim and fall off high objects and ride horses.

A game like this would be quite feasible, in fact it might already exist. Is it a roleplaying game? Does there have to be a human GM adjudicating every action in order for it to be a rpg and, if so, why?

If what you are asking is it possible for a video game to become sufficiently advanced to be an actual role-playing game, the answer is: maybe. The limiting factor in your example is that for all sentient beings in the game to be actual human players, that means all the blacksmiths, stable boys, farmers, harlots, beggers, as well as the king, the evil high level undead sorcerer, etc. would all have to be controlled by human players. Anyone want to sign up to play the stable boy?

Before a video game could be seriously considered a role-playing game, the game engine would have to be so advanced as to allow players to do practically anything (within constraints of the fantasy universe's physical laws and any genre emulation considerations), and have AI so advanced that the NPC actors would behave such that one could not tell they were computer controlled and scripted. The first is far more feasable than the second (and still not something that can be foreseen at the current level of development). It is doubtful that a video game engine will ever be this advanced because of the astronomical development that would be required to create it.

I love the game Morrowind, particularly how open-ended it is and how much choice there is within the game. I enjoy how I am able to "role-play" to the extent allowed by the game engine, but it is not itself a role-playing game because of its limits.

That is the difference between role-playing games and RPG style video games.

I hope my response doesn't violate Umbrian's warning to me.

 

[Scribble]

I like both books and movies..

I tend to prefer books, and normally if I've read the book of the movie, I'm disappointed by the movie...

It's that whole, no matter how great a director, he or she is never going to match what I see in my head concept...

I'd wager a guess that online and video type RPGs, and tabletop RPGs function in a similar way.


There will always be those who prefer one over the other, or like them both, but the two will remain as separate entities.

At least thats my thought.

 

[Brazeku]

You're probably not going to get a good story out of an MMO. You can have fun and everything, but "LOL my guild raided Ragnarosh last night it wuz EPIC!!! I got leet dropz" isn't a story.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

If what you are asking is it possible for a video game to become sufficiently advanced to be an actual role-playing game, the answer is: maybe. The limiting factor in your example is that for all sentient beings in the game to be actual human players, that means all the blacksmiths, stable boys, farmers, harlots, beggers, as well as the king, the evil high level undead sorcerer, etc. would all have to be controlled by human players. Anyone want to sign up to play the stable boy?

Is there really any meaningful difference between a stable boy that is algorithmically controlled, one which doesn't appear but is understood to be there, and one which the GM describes as, "He's just a stableboy; he doesn't know anything about your quest and isn't particularly interested in the fourth band of ruffians to come through town this week; can we get back to the Duke's party now?"

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

You're probably not going to get a good story out of an MMO. You can have fun and everything, but "LOL my guild raided Ragnarosh last night it wuz EPIC!!! I got leet dropz" isn't a story.

That's a very reductionist view of the possible stories to come out of an MMORPG.

How about, "Hey, remember that time we captured Castle Horgraden and held it for an entire month against [our enemies]?"

Or, "Hey - remember Erron and Julhae's wedding at sunset overlooking the Isles?"

 

[Scribble]

Is there really any meaningful difference between a stable boy that is algorithmically controlled, one which doesn't appear but is understood to be there, and one which the GM describes as, "He's just a stable boy; he doesn't know anything about your quest and isn't particularly interested in the fourth band of ruffians to come through town this week; can we get back to the Duke's party now?"

Well yes... Because no matter what, even if that stable boy is just a stable boy, and not supposed to offer anything very meaningful to the story, there are infinite ways the characters CAN make him a part of the story in a tabletop; the algorithmically controlled stable boy is still ultimately only able to do what it is programed to.

 

[Shadeydm]

That's a very reductionist view of the possible stories to come out of an MMORPG.

How about, "Hey, remember that time we captured Castle Horgraden and held it for an entire month against [our enemies]?"
QUOTE]

You mean hey remember that time we captured Castle X and held it for 5 minutes before the soldiers started to respawn. That the guild X came along and started to greif us because they wanted the Kings drops just like we did. That son of a gun playing the Thief snuck up and looted the King's corpse after we did all the work clearing up to the fight and beating the encounter.

 

[Brazeku]

That's a very reductionist view of the possible stories to come out of an MMORPG.

How about, "Hey, remember that time we captured Castle Horgraden and held it for an entire month against [our enemies]?"
QUOTE]

You mean hey remember that time we captured Castle X and held it for 5 minutes before the soldiers started to respawn. That the guild X came along and started to greif us because they wanted the Kings drops just like we did. That son of a gun playing the Thief snuck up and looted the King's corpse after we did all the work clearing up to the fight and beating the encounter.

Yeah that's pretty much par for the course. If this is what a person's tabletop roleplaying experience is like, well then by all means, they should play an MMO.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

That's a very reductionist view of the possible stories to come out of an MMORPG.

How about, "Hey, remember that time we captured Castle Horgraden and held it for an entire month against [our enemies]?"

You mean hey remember that time we captured Castle X and held it for 5 minutes before the soldiers started to respawn. [Etc.]

Look, while that is one possibility (say, EQ), it's not the only possibility.

Specifically, I'm thinking more of an NWN server or a battleground in a more PvP-oriented game [where the only other participants are other players; AIs need not apply!].

The fact that you immediately assume that this is the only possibility leads me to believe that you don't have a lot of experience in modern MMORPGs.