Conan classes replacing core classes in D&D

[Azgulor]

Although I'm still poring through the Conan RPG, I've already decided to incorporate its combat mechanics, equipment, money system, and at least the non-sorcery related feats into my upcoming Kalamar campaign. I tend to run rarer-magic campaigns where magic items aren't a dime a dozen and these rules are just want I've been waiting for. I'm so impressed with the Conan book that I'm thinking that the campaign would be better served by combining the classes of D&D with Conan. Some of the classes will port over to D&D without modification: Nomad, Pirate, and Noble (finally, a noble class worth playing!).

I'm still undecided on how far to take this concept with regards to the other classes. Several of the Conan classes are direct parallels of D&D core classes:
Barbarian (D&D) vs. Barbarian (Conan) - HD shifts to d10, better feat progression (IMO), and slightly different class skills. The Conan version appears to be more flavorful that the D&D version.
Fighter vs. Soldier - Essentially the same, but some additional "fighting in formation" feats for the Soldier.
Rogue vs. Thief - Again, mostly the same. However, HD shifts to d8, backstab is somewhat improved upon.
Ranger vs. Borderer - A viable non-spellcastiing wilderness warrior. As with the Barbarian class, the Borderer seems more evocative of the rangers/woodsmen found in fantasy literature.

Here's the dilema: assuming the Conan counterparts are used in favor of the D&D original classes, should I leave the Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorceror, and Wizard classes intact? To be on par with their Conan counterparts, I'm wondering if I should bump the Bard HD to d8 and the Sorceror and Wizard HD to d6. I don't really see the need to increase the Cleric and Druid's HD. Obviously, I need to develop Parry, Dodge, etc. values for the D&D classes but that's easy enough to do using the other classes as examples.

Has anyone tried this or been thinking along similar lines?

Thanks,

Azgulor

 

[Iron_Chef]

I would use the Scholar class from Conan and cut the traditional D&D spellcasters. The Scholar functions as priest, sorcerer, wizard or sage. The bard can be mimicked with my Skald feat chain, if necessary. See my Lankhmar thread for details:
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=78506

 

[Desdichado]

It sounds like many of those Conan classes are more powerful than their D&D counterparts. I'd be leery of mixing them; I'd probably do like Iron_Chef suggests; just play the Conan RPG but in the Kalamar setting.

 

[AscentStudios]

Although I'm still poring through the Conan RPG, I've already decided to incorporate its combat mechanics, equipment, money system, and at least the non-sorcery related feats into my upcoming Kalamar campaign. I tend to run rarer-magic campaigns where magic items aren't a dime a dozen and these rules are just want I've been waiting for. I'm so impressed with the Conan book that I'm thinking that the campaign would be better served by combining the classes of D&D with Conan.

My players in my Iron Kingdoms game have been begging for "more realistic" combats so I have started to convert Conan and some of its systems, specifically the combat and skill systems, over to IK. I've added a simple conversion chart for class Parry and Dodge bonuses, converted many IK weapons (such as black powder), added new combat maneuvers, and left magic alone for the most part. Consequently, combat will be exceptionally harsh for the wizards of the game, but the ability to be flying, invisible and throwing 10 maximized fireball spells dealing 60 damage each is more than enough to make up for it. Now low magic options make *sense* to play. We'll see how they take it

 

[Azgulor]

It sounds like many of those Conan classes are more powerful than their D&D counterparts. I'd be leery of mixing them; I'd probably do like Iron_Chef suggests; just play the Conan RPG but in the Kalamar setting.

I'm not finished with my comparison, but I haven't seen this thus far. From what I've seen thus far, it would simply be a matter of trimming some of the starting feats granted to some of the classes. For example, most of the "warrior" types have two-weapon combat as a starting feat. Easy enough to drop. BAB, save progression, #attacks, etc. all seem in line with their D&D counterparts. The thief is probably the exception in that HD goes to d8 (which was the reason for my post).

The magic system is too different to simply "play Conan" in a traditional D&D setting. It's a perfect fit for Hyboria, but it would completely alter the tone of say, the Scarred Lands. However, the classes and combat system actually seem to fit setting elements of Kalamar and Scarred Lands better. If I'm going to use the Conan classes, it's going to be in conjunction with wizards, bards, sorecerors, & clerics. I'll probably end up either changing the Thief HD to d6 or if I leave it d8, I may bump the Bard to d8 as well, but I'm leaning against it since Bards have spellcasting capabilities.

I'm leaning towards keeping wizards and sorcerors at d4 - in a grittier game with magic items being more rare, the magical firepower at their disposal compared to the "warrior" classes should compensate.

Azgulor

 

[HarryFlashman]

I have Developed a Charismatic bard based non-spell using class over here.

It is designed for a more metropolitan, urban low-magic campaign

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=78248


I also have a low-magic caster here:


http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=78160

Neither class has been vetted in combat or roleplaying yet so they might need some tweeking

They should both fit very well into Kalamar with lower amounts of magic.

 

[Desdichado]

I'm not finished with my comparison, but I haven't seen this thus far. From what I've seen thus far, it would simply be a matter of trimming some of the starting feats granted to some of the classes. For example, most of the "warrior" types have two-weapon combat as a starting feat. Easy enough to drop. BAB, save progression, #attacks, etc. all seem in line with their D&D counterparts. The thief is probably the exception in that HD goes to d8 (which was the reason for my post).

That's just based on your own description here on this thread (I haven't picked up the Conan RPG; I'm waiting for the second printing. ) It does appear that Thief gets improved HD for no loss and improved backstab, for instance.)

The magic system is too different to simply "play Conan" in a traditional D&D setting. It's a perfect fit for Hyboria, but it would completely alter the tone of say, the Scarred Lands. However, the classes and combat system actually seem to fit setting elements of Kalamar and Scarred Lands better. If I'm going to use the Conan classes, it's going to be in conjunction with wizards, bards, sorecerors, & clerics. I'll probably end up either changing the Thief HD to d6 or if I leave it d8, I may bump the Bard to d8 as well, but I'm leaning against it since Bards have spellcasting capabilities.

I don't see how Scarred Lands enters the equation. I thought your question was using Conan classes in Kalamar? And if all you're doing is using the Conan barbarian, ranger and rogue equivalents, then by all means, go for it. I don't see how that would affect any of the settings, frankly, unless they heavily depend on spell-casting rangers. The details seem relatively minor.

I'm leaning towards keeping wizards and sorcerors at d4 - in a grittier game with magic items being more rare, the magical firepower at their disposal compared to the "warrior" classes should compensate.

It doesn't sound like that drastic of an action; it should work fine. I actually prefer a more radical upset of the rules for flavor myself, but what you're proposing sounds quite minor.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Rogue vs. Thief - Again, mostly the same. However, HD shifts to d8, backstab is somewhat improved upon

Uh huh. It's more powerful in every way, especially "improving upon" sneak attack.

Seriously, I find sneak attack slightly overpowered, but it's not broken (eg I don't have to spend 30% of my adventure design nerfing it). Basically, anything they face is likely to fight smart or be a big dumb monster with a high AC score. Of course, mooks can get wasted by sneak attack but I've got to give the rogue some fun.

But anyway, if sneak attack got even more powerful I would have to go down the (IMO lame) route of using lots and lots of undead and giving out lots of fortification armor.