CONAN LIVES! Info on the new Conan RPG

[Water Bob]

Hopefully my answers have been illuminating.

This post is the best thing I've read on the game, including the playtest rules. Thank you for putting the time into writing this. It is very illuminating about how the game works.

I know you didn't ask for it, but I feel that it's useful for context.

Actually, that's exactly what I did ask for--so I'm glad you answered it!





Question: It looks like there are only a few "Difficulty Levels" used in the game. Requring one success is average. Requiring two successes is pretty hard. Requiring three successes is very hard. Requiring four successes is so hard that it is unheard of.

Is that a correct estimation?

 

[N01H3r3]

Question: It looks like there are only a few "Difficulty Levels" used in the game. Requiring one success is average. Requiring two successes is pretty hard. Requiring three successes is very hard. Requiring four successes is so hard that it is unheard of.

Is that a correct estimation?

Broadly. I'll give examples that assume a character with an Attribute of 8, Expertise +2, and Focus 2 for a given task (40% chance to generate 1 success on each d20, 10% chance to generate 2 successes).

There are six difficulty levels: Simple, Average, Challenging, Daunting, Dire, and Epic.

Simple requires no successes, and is there in part to account for talents or situations that make difficult tasks simpler to the point where they require no effort. It's also convenient to codify that some tasks are so simple that they don't need a test. A character can either pass a Simple task without a test as a Free Action, or they can take the normal action for the task, and make the test, in order to generate Momentum, at the risk of suffering Complications if you roll 20s. You can't choose to Fail a Simple task.

Average tasks require one success. They're the baseline for most combat tasks performed under normal circumstances. The sample character above passes an Average task 75% of the time on 2d20.

Challenging tasks require two successes. One significant impediment is enough to push a task from Average to Challenging - hitting a target with an arrow at optimal range is Average, but if it's dark as well, then it becomes Challenging. The sample character above passes a Challenging task 25% of the time on 2d20.

Daunting tasks require three successes. The sample character above passes a Daunting task 5% of the time on 2d20.

Dire tasks require four success. The sample character above passes a Dire task 1% of the time on 2d20.

Epic tasks require five successes. The sample character above cannot pass an Epic task without buying extra dice.

Consequently, finding extra ways to get successes - talents, buying extra dice, etc - is valuable, particularly if players want to pick up a decent amount of Momentum as well.

 

[Water Bob]

There are six difficulty levels: Simple, Average, Challenging, Daunting, Dire, and Epic.

Simple requires no successes, and is there in part to account for talents or situations that make difficult tasks simpler to the point where they require no effort. It's also convenient to codify that some tasks are so simple that they don't need a test. A character can either pass a Simple task without a test as a Free Action, or they can take the normal action for the task, and make the test, in order to generate Momentum, at the risk of suffering Complications if you roll 20s. You can't choose to Fail a Simple task.

Average tasks require one success. They're the baseline for most combat tasks performed under normal circumstances. The sample character above passes an Average task 75% of the time on 2d20.

Challenging tasks require two successes. One significant impediment is enough to push a task from Average to Challenging - hitting a target with an arrow at optimal range is Average, but if it's dark as well, then it becomes Challenging. The sample character above passes a Challenging task 25% of the time on 2d20.

Daunting tasks require three successes. The sample character above passes a Daunting task 5% of the time on 2d20.

Dire tasks require four success. The sample character above passes a Dire task 1% of the time on 2d20.

Epic tasks require five successes. The sample character above cannot pass an Epic task without buying extra dice.

That's about what I thought. I'd guess that most checks in the game are Average, with the occasional "hard" task at Challenging.

Here's some feedback: If that's an "average" character that you posted, shouldn't there be a difficulty around 50%?

His progression is:

100% Simple
75% Average

Both of those make sense. But, then, we jump way down...

25% Challenging

And, then, there are the super-hard difficulties.

5% Daunting
1% Dire
0% Epic



That progression looks a bit...steep. Most games like this "live" with three progressions of difficulty for the average character: 75% chance, 50% chance, and 25% chance.

Your game has the 75%, but then it drops way down to the 25%.

Things are either pretty easy, at 75%, or they're pretty hard, at 25%.

Don't you think that a more even-keel 50% chance is needed?



Without it, it looks like this game will "live" at just the one difficulty, 75% (Average). Occasionally, something will be hard, and so the 25% (Challenging) kicks in. But, mostly, tasks will be Average.

You don't think that needs a little work?

 

[pollico]

That's what the extra dices are for. Isn't it?

 

[Water Bob]

That's what the extra dices are for. Isn't it?

You have to pay Threat for extra dice.



What I'm saying is that, for an average character with average skills, the progression should look something like this:

Difficulty Chance

100%

75%

50%

25%

10% and less.




From what was posted, the system has everything about right except the missing piece--the 50% Difficulty--which is vital because it should be one of the three most used in the game (usually, 75%, 50%, and 25% are about right).

As it is, the game lives with a task that is very likely (75%) or is not likely (25%). There's no 50-50 chance.





EDIT:

Think about this. This translates to one of two things happening when a character rolls a task.

1. On Average tasks, the character will most likely make it. 75% chance. Most of the time, the roll is made. Every fourth roll, he fails.

2. On all other tasks, the character is likely to fail. 25% chance. Most of the time the roll is made, he fails three times out of four.



So, what happens?

Unless the task is Average, Threat must be purchased to slide the odds more towards the player.

The task system is designed so that Threat must be purchased.

In other words, any task that is Challenging or harder ensures harder obstacles and more enemies down the line.

The Threat Mechanic is very ingrained in this dicing system.

 

[N01H3r3]

That's about what I thought. I'd guess that most checks in the game are Average, with the occasional "hard" task at Challenging.

Here's some feedback: If that's an "average" character that you posted, shouldn't there be a difficulty around 50%?

That's the thing - the character isn't "average". It's a convenient illustrative profile because the numbers are easy to work with (50% chance of 1+ successes, 10% chance of 2 on each die).

And... even with that, I've made a mistake on the Challenging difficulty, as I forgot to account for the chance of rolling 2 successes on one die and none on the other. This pushes the chance to 39%.

Expertise 2 and Focus 2 is a fairly skilled character (skills range from 0-3 for both Expertise and Focus for most characters, with some characters having up to 5 for both in a small number of Signature Skills), so it isn't 'average'. Eight is an average attribute (normal range is 6-12 for most characters), yes, but the skills represent someone with a decent amount of training.

The only reason I picked those values was because they're convenient to work with.

Without it, it looks like this game will "live" at just the one difficulty, 75% (Average). Occasionally, something will be hard, and so the 25% (Challenging) kicks in. But, mostly, tasks will be Average.

You don't think that needs a little work?

Not really, because it comes down to design intent - the intended function of the rules - which I'll get to in a moment.

You have to pay Threat for extra dice.

Well, you have to find a way to get extra dice. Threat isn't the only way, though it is the universally-available one.

But the core this is true - you cannot reliably function at higher difficulties (or obtain useful quantities of Momentum) without obtaining additional dice. That's a feature, an intentional part of the design.

This is because a significant part of the design is not purely "how likely are you to succeed at X?" It also includes "how much are you willing to pay to succeed at X?"

As you say, the system is built assuming that some fundamental way of buying extra d20s is available.

In a lot of games where characters have access to a limited resource, that represents some additional factor on top of the baseline odds - if you're playing Mutants & Masterminds, use of a Hero Point (essentially, roll 1d10+10 instead of 1d20) is a way to circumvent the normal odds of the game occasionally. The assumed baseline of the game is rolling 1d20+modifier against target number.

2d20 does not have the same baseline assumption. The game is built with the assumption that characters will, at least occasionally, buy extra dice somehow. Consequently, the 'difficulty' of the game, absent the use of Threat, is lower than it might be if Threat were not a fundamental assumption (the majority of enemies are relatively weak - stronger foes often come with an inbuilt pool of 'personal Threat' that they can only use on themselves.

As a result, any variation of 2d20 that removed the Threat pool must replace it with something - hence the suggestion I made in an earlier post giving players a limited-but-quick-replenishing pool of Effort that lets them buy dice instead. This, however, removes the self-balancing relationship between player expenditure and GM resource.

 

[Water Bob]

I've got no problem with some type of point helping the player out. Fate Points in the Mongoose RPG. Force and Character Points in D6 Star Wars. Hero Points in the James Bond RPG. Those all work for me.

In all of those games, though, the points are a very limited resource, where as your game pretty much requires the points very often. And...I keep going back to it...the meta-game aspect of the points.

 

[pollico]

Fate points being a likited resource? Not in FATE.

 

[Water Bob]

Fate points being a likited resource? Not in FATE.

Yeah, I think the forum automatically hyperlinks that word. I'm talking about the Fate Points used in the Mongoose d20 based Conan RPG.

 

[N01H3r3]

Right, it appears I made some mistakes on my previous summation of the odds for different difficulties - I was working them out off the top of my head, because I couldn't find the more precise numbers at the time. I've also found values for higher numbers of dice, to show the impact. I'll use 2, 3, and 4 dice to illustrate here - most tests in my home Mutant Chronicles campaign, and during my playtests and demos of both Infinity and Conan use those numbers of dice more often than not (buying more than that is extremely rare, though it does happen occasionally for particularly desperate situations).

Again, I'm using the numerically-convenient example of a character with an Attribute of 8, Expertise +2, and Focus 2, because it provides the easiest numbers to work with. Each d20 rolled for this character has a 50% chance of producing no successes, a 40% chance of producing 1 success, and a 10% chance of producing two successes.

For a difficulty of 1, the character has a 75% chance of success on 2d20, an 87.5% chance on 3d20, or a 93.75% chance on 4d20.

For a difficulty of 2, the character has a 39% chance on 2d20, a 57.5% chance on 3d20, or a 68.75% chance on 4d20.

For difficulty 3, the chances are 9% on 2d20, 26% on 3d20, and 43.75% on 4d20.

For difficulty 4, the chances are 1% on 2d20, 7.6% on 3d20, and 18.2% on 4d20.

For difficulty 5, the chances are are 0 on 2d20, 1.3% on 3d20, and 12.04% on 4d20.

This does not account for abilities that characters may possess that grant them rerolls on one or more d20 they roll, or for the peculiarities of abilities that grant a bonus d20 if the character has already scored at least one success (as the odds of that are slightly different due to the extra die being conditional).