CONAN LIVES! Info on the new Conan RPG

Water Bob

Adventurer
In Mutant Chronicles, Threat is Dark Symmetry points. In that setting, humanity is opposed by an malign extradimensional force, the Dark Soul, which exerts its will upon humanity through its servants and through the force known as the Dark Symmetry. Dark Symmetry points do have a connection to the setting, as they can be thought to represent the malefic influence of the Dark Soul upon the world, as it rises up to subvert and corrupt humanity. It is a fundamental oppositional force for the game.

Was 2d20 designed for use with Mutant Chronicles in mind, and now it is being shoe-horned into other game universes?





And, in D&D, they'd have a right to feel that way... except that you've already brought up the GM's ability to fudge undesirable rolls, and this is essentially the same.

To be clear, I never fudge rolls in my game. And, I know my players like that I don't. It's one step that I've taken over the years to earn the players' trust.

If I say I rolled a number, then they believe me, because I did.

I think fudging rolls is bad form for a GM.
 

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I'm Old School. My games are heavy on roleplaying and immersion. For me and my group, that's what makes roleplaying so much different than another gaming activity, like playing Axis & Allies, poker, or Monopoly.

The Threat Mechanic is more akin to those types of games than actual, real roleplaying.

And, in being Old School, I believe that Meta-Gaming is bad.

I've found that most roleplayers have that opinion of Meta-Gaming. Not all, of course. But, most.

OLD SCHOOL

Do-not-think-it-means.jpeg
 

Water Bob

Adventurer

Maybe I am. I didn't mean it in any sense other than I started roleplaying in the mid-80's. No, not with the late 70's original group. I've never played with the original booklets or even basic D&D. But, I've spent too many hours to count with AD&D, and then AD&D 2E after that. And, recently (last couple of years), with Mongoose's Conan RPG.

But, why are we getting side tracked with definitions?

Did you not want to answer some of the questions I posed above?
 

N01H3r3

Explorer
Did you not want to answer some of the questions I posed above?
I'll answer the big question post tomorrow, when I get a little free time. As it is, this thread is quite a distraction, and there's other things I need to get on with (like actually developing the game you're so disdainful of).

But a quick answer to one question. Yes, 2d20 was originally designed for Mutant Chronicles, a pulp action-horror setting with larger-than-life heroes. Altered versions are being used for Infinity (anime-inspired sci-fi action), Conan, and John Carter (plus others we can't yet discuss), with a distinct iteration of the system for each setting. This is little different to Mongoose using a modified version of the d20 system for Conan.
 

Water Bob

Adventurer
But a quick answer to one question. Yes, 2d20 was originally designed for Mutant Chronicles, a pulp action-horror setting with larger-than-life heroes. Altered versions are being used for Infinity (anime-inspired sci-fi action), Conan, and John Carter (plus others we can't yet discuss), with a distinct iteration of the system for each setting. This is little different to Mongoose using a modified version of the d20 system for Conan.

The reason I ask is because, as you explained it above, the Threat Mechanic makes sense for the Mutant Chronicles game. As you say, it's not a meta-game mechanic in that game. There's an in-game reason for its existence. It seems to be a harder logical fit for other settings because there is not an uber-powerful force to attribute the Threat Mechanic to.
 



You didn't see post #130?

[MENTION=6799909]N01H3r3[/MENTION] said that he'd answer them tomorrow.

No, I missed it somehow. I'll let No1H3r3 answer the rules queries, but I think you're approaching the system with a very specific GMing style in mind. Maybe we can Skype you in to a game sometime. I'm pretty sure I could run RAW and you'd have a good time. But for me, the GM's style is more important than any rule.
 

Water Bob

Adventurer
In Mutant Chronicles, Threat is Dark Symmetry points. In that setting, humanity is opposed by an malign extradimensional force, the Dark Soul, which exerts its will upon humanity through its servants and through the force known as the Dark Symmetry. Dark Symmetry points do have a connection to the setting, as they can be thought to represent the malefic influence of the Dark Soul upon the world, as it rises up to subvert and corrupt humanity. It is a fundamental oppositional force for the game.

“Kid, I’ve ridden one side of the Known World to the other. I’ve seen a lot of strange stuff, but I’ve never seen anything to make me believe there’s one all-powerful Force controlling everything. There’s no mystical energy field that controls my destiny. It’s all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.”

-- Hannus Soloist
 

N01H3r3

Explorer
... The Common Threat List ...

I'd like to a list of common purchases for Threat in a Conan game.

If there is Threat to be spent, what are some common choices the GM can make....?

1 ...
2 ...
3 ...

I'll pull some text from an existing file rather than retype everything.

The following are the main ways by which the Threat pool grows:
  • Complication. When a character suffers one or more Complications [natural 20s, causing problematic effects] on a skill test, he or the GM may choose not to suffer an immediate Complication, in exchange for adding two to the Threat pool.
  • Improve the Odds. Each d20 that the player character buys before a skill test adds one point to Threat. A player character may purchase no more than three d20s for any given skill test.
  • Response Actions. A player character attempting a Response Action adds Threat to the pool. It requires one point for the first Response Action attempted during a round, two for the second, three for the third, and so forth.
  • Voluntary Failure. If a player character chooses to fail a task voluntarily – and the GM agrees to it – he pays the GM one Threat, and gains one Luck point.
  • Threatening Circumstances. The environment or circumstances of a new scene may be threatening enough to warrant adding one or two Threat to the pool automatically at the start of the scene. Similarly, some NPCs – this will be listed in their rules – may generate Threat just for turning up, or when taking certain actions.
  • NPC Momentum. NPCs with unspent Momentum cannot save it for later – NPCs don’t have a group Momentum pool. Instead, an NPC can add one Threat to the pool for each Momentum spent.

I know you didn't ask for it, but I feel that it's useful for context.

The most common uses for Threat are as follows:
  • NPC Complications. When an NPC suffers one or more Complications on a skill test, the GM may choose to remove two Threat from the pool instead of causing that NPC to suffer an immediate Complication.
  • NPC Improve the Odds. Each d20 that an NPC buys before a skill test removes one point from Threat. An NPC may purchase no more than three d20s for any given skill test.
  • NPC Response Actions. An NPC attempting a Response Action removes Threat from the pool. As with PCs, it requires one point for the first Reaction, two for the second, and so forth.
  • NPC Resources. Reloads, alchemical reagents, poultices, and other expendable resources used to boost the effect of a skill test are not tracked individually for NPCs. Instead, an NPC can be granted the benefit of a single unit of a resource by paying one Threat. For example, an NPC could pay one Threat to gain one Reload when making a ranged attack.
  • Activating Special Abilities. Some particularly powerful or experienced NPCs may have access to potent abilities or equipment. These abilities may require the GM to spend one or more Threat to activate them. These will be noted in individual NPC descriptions.
  • Seize the Initiative. Under normal circumstances, during an action scene, all the player characters will act first, followed by all of the NPCs. Before a player character acts, the GM may spend Threat to interrupt the action order and allow one of the NPCs to act. Interrupting the action order costs one Threat for each NPC the GM wishes to act out of turn.
  • Summoning Reinforcements. Sometimes the player characters dominate an encounter or clear through a combat in record time. Other times, the GM may wish to slowly increase the tension or add some extra complexity to a key scene. One way to do this is by summoning reinforcements using Threat. Reinforcements arrive at the end of the current round, they must arrive in a logical way, and they cannot act in the round they arrive. A Minion NPC costs one Threat to summon, while Elite NPCs cost two Threat.
  • Triggering an Environmental Effect. Dramatic scenes often play out in exciting environments – a firefight in a crumbling tenement, a chase through a busy marketplace, a chasm over a river of lava, etc. When describing encounters, the GM is encouraged to provide details to the players to help them visualise the scene, and sometimes it can be interesting to bring the environment alive through the use of Threat. Triggering an environment effect comes in two levels of magnitude. Minor effects – costing one Threat – are typically things like flickering lights, crumbling walls, thick smoke, which add to the difficulty of skill tests, or force tests where one was not previously required. Major effects – costing two or more Threat – may pose significant impediments to the characters, or even cause them harm (physical or mental) or short-lived conditions.

Those should give a solid idea of the ways in which Threat is typically used.

... An Adventure Question About Threat ...

Also, a question: When the adventures are written, will they have entries like this:

"...there is a loose flagstone near the entry to the temple, and it costs 4 Threat to have it depressed, which means poison darts shoot from four columns at the corners of the entry, attacking everyone in front of the door."



"...It takes 2 Successes to open the lock on the chest. If 2 Threat are Spent, then the lock also explodes with hidden gas pumped by a bladder concealed within the cask. Everyone within 10 feet take damage of..."



"...if the PCs make any noise over a whisper, spend 6 Threat to have 2 more guards appear from around the corner of the building..."
Not precisely. You've got the idea - adventures will list example Threat spends for the GM to use in particular scenes. However, Threat is not the only mechanism in play here.

The examples you've put forwards, I'd probably handle them as follows:

  1. Near the entrance to the temple, there's a loose flagstone that conceals a dart trap in the nearby columns. If the characters approach carefully, a Challenging D2 Observation test will reveal the loose stone, and some brief investigation can determine that the stone is part of a trap. If the trap isn't noticed, or if characters pass through the entrance in a hurry, there's a chance they'll trigger the trap: the entrance area is hazardous terrain, requiring an Average D1 Acrobatics test to avoid the trap (either avoiding the trigger, or dodging the darts), or suffering [amount of damage] from the darts.
  2. It requires a Challenging D2 Thievery test to unlock the chest. Before a test is attempted, the GM may spend two Threat for the chest to be trapped. The trap is a bladder of explosive gas, that erupts in a blast of flame if the chest is opened. If the chest is trapped, then a successful Thievery test to unlock the chest also reveals that it is trapped, and the player character should be given the choice how to proceed. Attempting to disarm the trap requires a Challenging D2 Craft or Thievery test, with failure triggering the trap instead. A Complication on this test triggers the trap automatically (though the players or GM may choose to 'buy off' this complication by adding two Threat to the pool as normal). If the trap is triggered, each character within...
  3. The guards in the area are particularly alert; at any point during the scene, if the player characters cause any loud noises (or the guards call for help), the GM may bring in up to two additional guards, for two Threat each, who arrive around the corner of the building at the end of the round, as normal for reinforcements.

The first doesn't involve Threat at all - it's a scene framing element, established when the scene begins. There are ways for the PCs to avoid it, and getting caught by the trap isn't guaranteed even for the incautious - it's a risk.

The second creates an additional complication with Threat, but it doesn't just spring the trap immediately - it poses a problem for the characters, rather than just throwing damage at them without warning.

The third is pretty much as you've covered (though the cost for reinforcements is determined by the type of NPC). Again, it should come with some degree of warning and framing - reinforcements should be a known risk for the players, and be established in the scene beforehand.

... Another Question About Threat ....

Is the GM limited in anyway on how he spends the Threat.

Let's say the PCs are kicking butt, have stolen the princess from Thulsa Doom, and are making their get away. The GM decides to use his Threat to kill Valeria, make Conan mad, and set up a revenge fueled climax for the adventure.

The GM spends 2 Threat in order for Doom to have a live snake on him to use in his spell. It costs 4 Threat for Doom to have the spell, Snake Arrow, memorized and ready to be used. It costs 2 Threat for either Thorgrim or Rexor to be carrying a bow that Thulsa can use. And, the GM spends 3 Threat on Thulsa to give the sorcerer the best chance of hitting Valeria. On top of that, the GM spends 3 more Threat to ensure that the venom injected into Valeria's body will render her dead within a game round or two.

The GM uses all of the Threat pool to kill Valeria and further the narrative.

But...even after all of this, the players pull it out. Akiro shows up, riding a donkey, and happens to have a neutralize poison spell. He generates some more Threat when rolling for the spell, but he saves Valeria's life! The poison is gone before it is fatal!

Yeah!

Now, though, the GM has 3 more Threat Points in the pool, and he uses all three to cause a landslide at the mouth of the narrow gorge as Valeria exits--and she dies from those wounds.

This is all legitimate, yes? The GM could spend his points this way if he felt this was the best way to tell his story?
It's legitimate, though not how I'd handle it. A lot of that description assumes that Threat is the GM's only recourse to do anything.

To start with, Thulsa Doom's spells would just be a function of his rules - having a spell "memorised and ready" is a D&Dism we won't be using. However, as with Dark Gifts in Mutant Chronicles, spells used by NPCs will often come as Threat spends, serving as a natural limit on how often those spells can be used (dark rituals and the like will normally revolve around the sorcerer spending turns adding points to Threat until they reach a certain point, with the PCs trying to stop that happening).

There's also no inherent way of making an effect more deadly via Threat, unless that's a facet of a spell or ability (and, in fairness, many Dark Gifts in Mutant Chronicles scale upwards by the amount of points spent).

The magic system is still being refined and fine-tuned, but to borrow from Mutant Chronicles again, Mystics in that setting have the option of sacrificing their own mental health instead of paying Dark Symmetry points when powering their spells. The idea of magic being costly is a design goal here, so a similar mechanic may find its way into the final version (maybe sacrificing physical health instead of mental).

Finally, it's rare to use Threat to create an effect that can't be resisted, unless that effect is small or transitory. In such situations, the quantity of Threat spend would determine the difficulty of the test to resist, the amount of damage inflicted, or both.

Hopefully my answers have been illuminating.
 

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