Condition track - wishful thinking, rumor or confirmed?

[glass]

I hope not, if I wanted a death spiral I'd use the Storyteller system.

As I understand it, the condition track in SWSE isn't a death spiral. If it were, I'd oppose it, but as it is I hope it is in 4e (although I don't think it will be).


glass.

 

[glass]

We've used variations of the Condition Track for years (the two systems we used were -1 on all D20 rolls when 1/3rd wound, -2 when 2/3rds wounded and -3 at zero or lower; and the slightly simpler -2 when half wounded and -4 at zero or lower).

If by '1/3 wounded' you mean 'at 1/3 hp', then that isn't a condition track but a bog standard death spiral. I really hopr they don't put on of those in 4e.

Also, even with a Condition Track system, it still won't address the issue of being at 1 hit point and still being able to fight at full effectiveness unless there are some additional rules I am unaware of.

Why is that a problem? It is pretty much what happens in real life.


glass.

 

[Exen Trik]

Link please.

Also, death should be at -x% of hit points for some x.

I like death at -50%, same value as Bloodied. That way a high level barbarian could take a good hit from 1 HP and not die, but you no longer need to keep smashing that housefly until you hit -10 either.

 

[Baby Samurai]

I'm almost positive that there is only the Bloodied condition/mechanic, no additional Condition Track as well.

I also believe they will finally ditch the clunky -10 dying rule.

 

[Plane Sailing]

At the moment I think that condition track comes under "wishful thinking" based on the assertion that star wars se 'previews' many 4e ideas.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I'm very much against condition tracks as I feel they add unnecessary complexity. Constantly changing penalties are worse than buff spells (which to a large degree are being removed in 4e) as your stats change more often. I found them really annoying in Earthdawn.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with the condition track, but it is far better than you assume here.

Firstly, it removes masses of complexity by taking away disease, poison, permanent injury, fear, nausea, morale failure etc. etc. etc. and making them all modifications to the condition track.

Swap dozens of conditions for one easy to track thing? Pure gold!

In addition, a single flat penalty is much easier to manage in practice than either changes to abilities which have knock on effects to derived bonuses or masses of different penalties. Quick! What is the overall penalty from 3pts Dex damage from poison, being shaken and being nauseous at the same time!

Finally, PCs are in control of the condition track, because they can take actions during the combat round to move themselves back up the condition track, thus it isn't a death spiral (which doesn't give you any way off the merry go round of death)

Cheers

 

[wedgeski]

Also, even with a Condition Track system, it still won't address the issue of being at 1 hit point and still being able to fight at full effectiveness unless there are some additional rules I am unaware of.

I don't see this as a 'problem' merely an abstraction. Any rules designed to deal with it will just be adding complexity for the sake of realism, which is the exact opposite of D&D.

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

Firstly, it removes masses of complexity by taking away disease, poison, permanent injury, fear, nausea, morale failure etc. etc. etc. and making them all modifications to the condition track.

The Spined Devil (again) made me think that there are separate status conditions in 4e:

Spine Rain Standard; ranged 10; +9 Dex vs. Ref; 1d6+2 + 2d6 fire AND Poisoned 5, Slowed while Poisoned

"Poisoned" and "Slowed" - the capitalization makes them sound like status effects.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

The Spined Devil (again) made me think that there are separate status conditions in 4e:

"Poisoned" and "Slowed" - the capitalization makes them sound like status effects.

I'm sure there will be various conditions just as there are in 3x, but they can be separate and overlapping like (most) are now or they can be linked on a track.

For instance, dazed, stunned, flatfooted, staggered and unconscious (and quite a few others) are all separate conditions with nothing to do with each other, even though they could easily be made different levels of a single track. A condition track that does exist in 3x is the "getting tired" condition. Normal <-> Fatigued <-> Exhausted. If you do something fatiguing while already fatigued you become exhausted, and when you recover from exhaustion you pass through fatigue. There is a track of fear effects as well.

A condition track doesn't have to be tied to hit points, though losing so many hp at once might automaticly move you on the track.

 

[Stalker0]

At first I thought the condition track would be a part of 4e, but with the recent previews I'm changing my mind. It looks like the bloodied condition is there, and then some of the old conditions we are used to.

I like the SW condition track, but I'm not married to it. SW and DND are NOT the same thing, and sometimes certain mechanics work for one and not the other. The thing to remember about SW is that it is LOW LOW magic compared to standard dnd. The force doesn't hold a candle to a high level wizard.

If you strip all conditions out and make a condition track, that greatly limits the number of spells you can produce. Think of how many dnd spells cause nausea, or fatigue, stunning, etc. In the end you would have 1 spell that just knocked you down the track. That's not a bad way to go, but perhaps its a bit too simplistic for dnd.

The new bloodied condition looks pretty interesting, as it provides a means by which certain abilities become conditional, only working or not working under bloodied status. If they at least simplify the various conditions somewhat, I'll be happy.