Congrats to Changeling!

[SSquirrel]

Your houseruling only suggests that it's a flawed system. If you go outside of the intended system that doesn't mean it's freeform. It's evident by your houserules. You're giving players effects that were not covered by the system.

Uhm...what? The book even says that you can create similar effects using different spheres. That isn't a houserule. As often as you keep using the word "houserule" aimed directly at me, it feels very much like you're trying to marginalize my opinion. Hopefully that isn't the case. This built in flexibility is, in fact, what makes it freeform.

1) There is no system of unity. Mages do not have any incentive to work together. It's very easy for Mages to gain individual power and not have a reason to stay in the group.

Starting characters still won't be holding off all threats by themselves. In 3rd Ed D&D a wizard soon outstrips the entire party. Our games showed it took a much longer period of time before anyone was truly self sufficient. Some never were.

It was clear right off the bat than MtA required houserules. Some characters flat out sucked. They couldn't achieve a modicum of success compared to other characters.

Any RPG that isn't just pregenned characters will have some people who are able to make more effective characters than other.

And nobody has to house rule it

Again with the houserule comment.

3) The price of power. In oWoD characters would simply become powerful - that's it. I'm powerful, teh uber kewl weezard!. As players grow in power so does their paradox. In oWoD Paradox only occurred when you failed.

An yet you said earlier that as you get more powerful it becomes harder to succeed. Seems like that is the built in check. As you get more powerful it becomes harder to convince reality that your magic is not an offense against it.

Unlike oWoD, there is a mechanical and narrative price for power that demands group dynamics. Last time I checked, RPG's are a cooperative game. The increase in mechanical elements that drive narrative elements means a better Roleplaying game.

This is White Wolf, where infighting among the group has always been a part of things.

Is it really cliche to peg Atlantis as a source of magic?

As a matter of fact yeah it is cliche. It seems like at least half of the half-baked new age theories points at Atlantis. Higher technology, magic, markedly advanced civilization, etc.

For starters, Atlantis is not the source of magic. You are wrong. The Supernal World is the source of magic.

Reading the fluff for the core rulebook it certainly came across that anyone who used magic ended up heading to Atlantis, which makes it the land of all the mages. Sounds like a source to me.

Atlantis was the mythical nation of Wizards. Mythical because in the nWoD game many wizards consider it as metaphor for hubris and an allegory for the price of power, not an actual place.

Many people consider various religious tales to be myth while others consider them to be veritable fact. Theories make nothing correct or incorrect.

Furthermore, name 20 other game systems that use Atlantis as metaphor for hubris and an allegory for the price of power. In order to qualify as a cliche` there must be gross overuse. You cannot name one.

I wasn't speaking strictly of games and never claimed to be. Atlantis has always been an allegory of pride, it's not like that was a new concept.