Consecrated Ground and game Balance

[Plane Sailing]

That`s true.

Still, my main gripe with consecrated ground remains. That you have a 3x3 Zone in which people automatically recover from < 0 HP withou any sacrifice of ressources (healing surges).

Hi BJB, welcome to Enworld!

I've not seen this power in action, but I find myself agreeing with you - it looks a little like the 'law of unintended consequences' is at work here... a power that makes PCs pretty much unkillable (even in a limited area) just seems over the top. After all, even high level monsters don't do enough damage to take you to negative bloodied in one go.

I'm pretty sure that I'll be running this as "only heals if above 0hp"

Cheers

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

That`s true.

Still, my main gripe with consecrated ground remains. That you have a 3x3 Zone in which people automatically recover from < 0 HP withou any sacrifice of ressources (healing surges).

So even on higher levels, and even if conserated ground would heal just 1 single HP, it still would force the DM into deliberatly trying to focus and kill all players in the Zone one at a time. If he plays it "nice", i.e. staying away from players who are below zero and fights the rest of the group first, he might as well fight a bunch of trolls with immunity to fire/acid .

Unless, of course, the monsters can push/slide/pull the characters out of the zone...which is a pretty sensible thing to be doing in the circumstances. That 3x3 zone really isn't very big on a full-sized-poster-map.

 

[James McMurray]

So even on higher levels, and even if conserated ground would heal just 1 single HP, it still would force the DM into deliberatly trying to focus and kill all players in the Zone one at a time. If he plays it "nice", i.e. staying away from players who are below zero and fights the rest of the group first, he might as well fight a bunch of trolls with immunity to fire/acid .

At higher level stunning and domination show up a lot. A single round of that on the cleric will stop him from sustaining the zone. Daze is also very common, and although he can still sustain it, that's all he'll be doing.

Killing the unconscious is one possibility, and it's usually the easiest one, but it's not the only one.

 

[eamon]

Are you even considered bloodied when you are dying? Most of the phrasing in the Death and Dying section seems to suggest you are not. Just like being dead implies you're no longer dieing and need not longer save each round, dying implies you're no longer bloodied. Both assumptions aren't stated, but that's probably the clearest way to rule it.

Also consider that there are other effects which trigger on bloodied status and none of them seem to make exceptions for the dying status. A battlepriest's Battle Cry allows bloodied allies to spend a healing surge - I don't think they mean dying allies. A Battle Mage's Battle Edge is positively ludicrous if interpreted to work in a dying or dead state.

In other words, fallen allies should not benefit from Consecrated Ground.

 

[James McMurray]

"You are bloodied when your current hit points drop to your bloodied value or lower."

-5 is still less than your bloodied value, so you are bloodied while dying.

 

[eamon]

"You are bloodied when your current hit points drop to your bloodied value or lower."

-5 is still less than your bloodied value, so you are bloodied while dying.

I think the text cannot be reliably interpreted in such a limited mechanical fashion in this instance. That sentence is there, but I stand by my interpretation that you are not bloodied when dying.

Note that a dead creature would be bloodied by your interpretation as well...

 

[Chen_93]

I think the text cannot be reliably interpreted in such a limited mechanical fashion in this instance. That sentence is there, but I stand by my interpretation that you are not bloodied when dying.

Note that a dead creature would be bloodied by your interpretation as well...

There is no inherent reason why you cannot be bloodied and dying at the same time. The rules specifically state you are bloodied if you are at less than or equal to your bloodied value. Similarly, when you are dead you are still bloodied (unless whatever killed you did not drop your HP below the bloodied values like some diseases).

 

[James McMurray]

I think the text cannot be reliably interpreted in such a limited mechanical fashion in this instance. That sentence is there, but I stand by my interpretation that you are not bloodied when dying.

Why?

Note that a dead creature would be bloodied by your interpretation as well...

If you choose to allow objects to be bloodied, then sure. I don't see the point, but haven't really examined the idea very closely.

 

[Bond James Bond]

I think the text cannot be reliably interpreted in such a limited mechanical fashion in this instance. That sentence is there, but I stand by my interpretation that you are not bloodied when dying.

Note that a dead creature would be bloodied by your interpretation as well...

I support your interpretation.

Being blodied has to stop at some point (at least when you are dead), but since the rules are silent on this issue, it makes a lot of sense to me to assume that the condition of "bloodied" is replaced by "dying" when your hp drop below 0.

(This interpretation would alos make consecrated ground balanced, which I do like )

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

a power that makes PCs pretty much unkillable (even in a limited area) just seems over the top.

Hrm. Make sure the cleric isn't in the zone, and gank him.

I just used it in our 30-odd round combat (1 solo soldier and 3 elite leaders, plus 4 minions that just kept spawning), and honestly the "heals from 0" is the only thing that kept us alive. It also ate up a lot of my actions, but it was worth it to keep it going.

Brad