Consequences of playing "EVIL" races

[Lanefan]

Heh - in my campaign becoming a Drider is every Llolth Cleric's dream, as I have the Driders being Llolth's minions and very powerful.

Flip side is if you're a Drow and you ever see a Drider, its presence is a sure sign that Llolth is taking an interest in proceedings and so you'd better mind your p's and q's just in case She's in a worse-than-usual mood.

 

[Zhaleskra]

Switching what kind of evil critters we're talking about for a while, I wanted to address the hope of this time that succubus really is a good person. A long time ago, I had a very similar situation running one of the Planescape adventures (I forget which one) where the party had two paladins, and a Baatezu who had recently been demoted to Cornugon (sorry if I forgot the spelling) was helping them to stick it to his superiors. The female paladin attempted to talk the devil out of evil. I didn't have it work, but I think if I were running it again I'd have her see if she could persuade him. I mean, he already got demoted for not being evil enough, right?

 

[Michael Silverbane]

The best example of this is, of course, the Tales of Wyre, right here in our own Storyhour subforum.

 

[dragoner]

Playing a Bugbear could be sort of kooky fun. There is another sort of evil, a gangster, who robs the biggest bank, but their love is shot in the get a way, so they set the car on fire like St Olga burning cities for her beloved, and go on criminal rampage until gunned down by police, dying with smile on their face. Beautiful tragic evil.

 

[Eltab]

Playing a Bugbear could be sort of kooky fun. There is another sort of evil, a gangster, who robs the biggest bank, but their love is shot in the get a way, so they set the car on fire like St Olga burning cities for her beloved, and go on criminal rampage until gunned down by police, dying with smile on their face. Beautiful tragic evil.

Sounds like a run-through of Grand Theft Auto, trying to find out if the police have attack helicopters or even Warthogs programmed in.

 

[dragoner]

Sounds like a run-through of Grand Theft Auto, trying to find out if the police have attack helicopters or even Warthogs programmed in.

Truthfully I stole it from a music video, it does sound like some 19th century folk hero too.

 

[DammitVictor]

Something about this thread has been bugging me, and it only now occurred to me.

If you, the DM, have to enforce the consequences of the player's decision, they are not really the consequences of the player's decision. They're your decision, they're your consequences, and you are responsible for them in both senses of the word.

When considering the "consequences" of playing a "monster" race in D&D... even before you examine whether or not immediate murderous bigotry is actually the most realistic response (and no, it still isn't), DMs need to ask themselves whose fun they are improving by responding this way, instead of either being more accepting or simply telling the player to choose a more appropriate race for their character.

 

[Helldritch]

Ishhhh....
It is like saying: "I warn you that if you jump the cliff you will get hurt, even die". You jump and get hurt and your response is: "That is your fault, you should have not made that cliff so easily reachable."

A person is accountable for his/her actions and choices. If you make a bad choice and you know the consequences (and even if you don't) you are ENTIRELY and COMPLETELY RESPONSIBLE of your CHOICES!

Playing the bad guy is playing a bad guy. Even if that bad guy happens to be a good one stuck with the reputation of his race/culture. It is unfortunate that some member of a race/culture are victims of the bias of others toward their race/culture (IRL or in game) but as deplorable as it is; it is a fact that you can not ignore nor avoid. You are not playing the Care bear RPG. You're playing a fantasy RPG where you are supposed to play the hero. If you want to disguise your hero as a bandit/killer so be it. But do not be surprised if the cops and the people around you act as if you were a bandit/killer.

As a DM I would and will enforce what would be the logical reaction of the people your character will encounter. It might not be to your liking. But logic will there.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Ishhhh....
It is like saying: "I warn you that if you jump the cliff you will get hurt, even die". You jump and get hurt and your response is: "That is your fault, you should have not made that cliff so easily reachable."

A person is accountable for his/her actions and choices. If you make a bad choice and you know the consequences (and even if you don't) you are ENTIRELY and COMPLETELY RESPONSIBLE of your CHOICES!

Playing the bad guy is playing a bad guy. Even if that bad guy happens to be a good one stuck with the reputation of his race/culture. It is unfortunate that some member of a race/culture are victims of the bias of others toward their race/culture (IRL or in game) but as deplorable as it is; it is a fact that you can not ignore nor avoid. You are not playing the Care bear RPG. You're playing a fantasy RPG where you are supposed to play the hero. If you want to disguise your hero as a bandit/killer so be it. But do not be surprised if the cops and the people around you act as if you were a bandit/killer.

As a DM I would and will enforce what would be the logical reaction of the people your character will encounter. It might not be to your liking. But logic will there.

But are people even talking about playing a bad guy? Or a “bad race”? How is a Lawful Good Hobgoblin Paladin of Bahamut a “bad guy”?

I think that the point that @FaerieGodfather was making is that since it’s all made up, you could just as easily create the fictional circumstances that don’t ruin that players fun.

In other words, the “logic” you’re applying is made up and you can make up another.

 

[DammitVictor]

I think that the point that @FaerieGodfather was making is that since it’s all made up, you could just as easily create the fictional circumstances that don’t ruin that players fun.

In other words, the “logic” you’re applying is made up and you can make up another.

Especially when the "logic" in question doesn't make nearly as much as sense as some people seem to think it does.

Like, for instance, people may believe all kinds of horrible stereotypes about goblinoids, they might even fear and hate goblinoids on the basis of those stereotypes-- but they're not going to organize a lynch mob to murder the very first goblinoid they've ever seen on the very first day they've seen one, while he is heavily armed and traveling in the company of other heavily armed, magically gifted individuals.

You'll get a lot of stares, warding gestures, people hiding their children. People might throw stones, actually, but a proper stoning requires a crowd. Gate guards might refuse access, city guards might demand "proof" you have the right to be there. Businesses will deny services, or only serve you through the back door.

You might get a lynch mob, after you've been in town for a few days, when someone-- usually a young woman-- accuses you of a crime, usually of a sexual nature.

People like to say prejudice is borne of ignorance, and this might be true, but actual violent hatred requires enough time for familiarity to breed contempt.

Note that everything I just described applies to any humanoid... including the supposedly Good and/or Neutral ones. You don't usually see the same kinds of DM behavior with exotic elf subraces-- when the local "Chaotic Good" elves murder anyone who enters the woods-- or with different human ethnic types, even when those humans frequently engage in raiding against the locals.

One of my biggest problems with D&D is that a lot of DMs engage in all sorts of naughty word behavior-- ranging from petty dickery to arbitrarily offing PCs-- in the name of "realism" when it's apparent they're not even on a first-name basis with reality. They simply have no clue how the real world even works.